Veloce Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 my S1 240 has the fender holes. Factory ones. ill measure up and confirm if they same as the diagram. post tomorrow Thanks ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS30-H Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 ... i have modified the "original" fender mirror placement drawing with measurements taken to centre of mirror hole mount (the large hole) as supplied earlier in the thread. I'll be doing this soon so after looking at several 240ZG pics i think this is as close to JDM original as we can get without actually going to the Nissan museum with a tape measure. For christ's sake..... The original illustration and the original measurements were taken from a "JDM original" car. It's in my bloody garage, alongside two other "JDM original" bloody Zs which share the same measurements. So now you're modifying the original illustration and measurements, and adding your own measurements, with data that you are acquiring by looking at photographs.....? You've even decided to make them symmetrical, when the originals were positioned differently left to right. WTF? I give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.A.R. Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I've decided to attach mine to the roof! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledge Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 HI FWIW i can confirm the measurements on page one. We restored an early Z at work that had original fender mirrors as the owner purchased the car new. The measurements where within a couple of mm of the diagram and not the same left and right Cheers Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riceburner Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 For christ's sake..... The original illustration and the original measurements were taken from a "JDM original" car. It's in my bloody garage, alongside two other "JDM original" bloody Zs which share the same measurements. So now you're modifying the original illustration and measurements, and adding your own measurements, with data that you are acquiring by looking at photographs.....? You've even decided to make them symmetrical, when the originals were positioned differently left to right. WTF? I give up. I checked on my JDM import after I had fitted the mirrors, due to lots of discussion. Sure enough, as per usual with Alans info it was spot on. I've decided to attach mine to the roof! Bahahaha! I think the biggest thing is making sure you use the S30 mirrors and not the bluebird style, I originally had the bluebird type with the shorter stalk, S30 type will go on when it's back together. With the longer S30 stalks, There's a bit of difference in how far they sit out visually from front on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3c0y Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 haha Alan you must be subscribed to this thread. When someone comes in to screw up your diagram you are never far away. One day i'll get to move mine to the right spot :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veloce Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 So are these cars all "wrong"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veloce Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Pic as posted on first page for easy reference, fitted as per the supposed correct measurements. I dunno, you can all make up your own mind, i'm not here to start a sh*t fight ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyDropbear Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 D3c0y's is different because he didn't have the plastic mounting gaskets to measure from, so they are more forward than they should be (stated on page 3). The thing seems to be getting the 'correct' mirrors and using the gaskets to measure from, rather from mounting holes. But in the end, does a few mm either way really count as long as they're useable? I don't really understand why people are so anal about a mirror hole, if you're drilling holes, they're not factory standard so a few mm either way doesn't matter because it's still a modification from original factory spec. So as long as they're showing what they should, does it really matter? and if you're putting them on symmetrically (which is different from factory spec), it becomes even less relevant. I understand that having the diagram to the middle of the mounting hole is easier in terms of drilling the hole, as long as it's been made up with the mounting gasket and with the correct mirrors. Otherwise the internetz gets one more piece of not-quite-accurate information. Anyway, just put them on where you want, if someone wants to argue with you, tell them to go buy their own! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairlady Z Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Ok just measured mine up. Its measured from inner edge of the guard and front edge of the guard at outmost edge no headlight cone I get 11"x 7.5" spot on on rhs and about the same on lh but tad more. Given the inch measurements as they seem to be spot on the center of the hole. So in cm its 19.05 from the bonnet and 27.94 from the headlight cone. Pics Right guard Left guard And few months ago when i installed one of my factory fender mirrors on the same car. looks like these have been mounted depending on what day and worker. Mine don't seem to be offset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3c0y Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I mistakenly drilled the hole where the two measurements intersected and after talking to Alan that's not how the diagram is intending to be read. As mentioned above its from the edge of the plastic base. The left hand side mirror is not in exactly the same spot as the right hand side mirror either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veloce Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Thanks Fairlady Z for doing that, your measurements are pretty much spot on to my modified drawing above (headlight bucket measurement is 4mm out but we're now talking bees dicks). Without having a fender mirror in front of me, both drawings most likely lead to the same outcome, however i imagine it is much easier to work with the centre mesurement of the hole rather than work back from the base of the mirror. Still doesn't explain the offset conflict, guess it just depends how much sake the factory workers consumed the night before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS30-H Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 So are these cars all "wrong"? What makes you think they are "right", or even different to my original ( much misunderstood and now much plagiarised and altered ) diagram and measurements? The reason I measured to the edges of the plastic bases was because my mirrors were already mounted on the car ( by the factory... ) and I wasn't going to be taking them off just to take some measurements ( sod that ). So I measured to the base, and gave the dimensions that way - pointing out that there are not really any hard and fast lines on the bodywork to measure to - but still a couple of people misunderstood it, or said that the diagram "looked wrong"...... From your photos, the first ( green ) car is an HLS30-U that's been modified to look like an HS30-H ( it's an American car, so it didn't have fender mirrors when it left the factory ) and the white car has chromed mirrors. Since none of these cars left the factory with chrome mirrors ( chrome fender mirrors are usually 510 Bluebird or C10 Skyline items with different stalks to the genuine S30-series Z items ) how can you tell that they are in their original positions anyway....? All you're doing is muddying the waters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veloce Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Yawn... Any of you speak Japanese? Better get Yoshihiko Matsuo on the phone before somebody has a meltdown. But apologies for re-plagiarising an already plagiarised factory diagram, you better copyright it next time. Seriously though, who cares, photo measurements are now there, i'll work off those, nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexual_sushi Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Veloce, HS30-H is a great source of information and it looks like he is just trying to make it clear and concise. There is so much false information on the internet, in my early days I bought an S15 6 Speed box because I read a post saying that it bolts on just like the 5 speed boxes. If someone had posted below it saying it is BS I would have saved myself some money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexual_sushi Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 And if know one cares then why does this thread exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 +1 for Alan for being a wealth of information, gave me some great info on some japanese seats I was going to buy recently. Also I have some factory mounted fender mirrors and the meaurements came up as per the diagram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veloce Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Fair call guys, but the problem appeared to be that it was not clear and concise if people have made mistakes mounting them, hence why i was attempting to make it more clear... and that is not a personal attack on you HS30-H or anyone else for that matter. Please ignore my childish response above Having said that, if you guys feel my interpretation of the set-out is more confusing than the original one, you guys want me to delete it? I have no problem with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxon Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 In my honest and often wrong opinion, put them where you like, doesn't matter if it's original or not. The zed is great cause you can do all sorts of modification to it, airdam, flares, rear spoiler, wheels, etc etc and as long as it's tasteful, the community embrases it. All sorts of personalisations are in scope, and that's a very good thing. I attempted to fit the fender mirrors as per the diagram and I didn't like where it placed them. It doesn't mean the diagram was wrong, I just didn't like the original, just as I don't like the original front end without an airdam. So I put them somewhere else. Put them where you like, the s30 looks amazing, has aged incredibly well, but it isn't perfect so do as you please to make it your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nizm0zed Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 well your diagram is definitely wrong, coz i measured up my 1/24th scale JADA model and once i converted the scale into mm and then into inches then its definite that they should be symmetrically placed on the roof.... Simple maths, easy as 1, 2, 4. I took a photo too, just so i could measure on the photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairlady Z Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Veloce ,no probs at least someone appreciates the effort i went through. HS30-H Alan, been following your post and various forums for years.Saved most of them giving the info that's is precious.Heaps of respect and kudos to you. As you said earlier these things are difficult to measure exact and makes it harder with mirrors in place. Still think your diagram is very good. You have drawn the dimensions and shown its the edges of the base and not center holes. I thought mine were slightly offset when plugs were in. And they are by roughly 5mm. Anyway this wasn't a contest who's right or wrong. My car is early Aus delivered s1 240z that has fender mirror holes and been covered by a plug. Same plug was used in some other datsun cars like 180b that arrived with fender mirrors. Most cars at dealership had they fender mirrors removed and pluged with these plugs. Than the normal door mirrors fixed. In my case only driver side. Now this car still has original paint on the front somewhat stuffed but only single layer. So i know the holes have not been put on afterwards. Nizm0zed I'm not sure if that last comment was directed at me or Veloce?Regardles uncalled for. I lost over an hour digging the panel out of storage removing and breaking the other plug so i can take reasonable measurements and help fellow zedder out. That includes uploading the pics, editing sensitive info out of the image and posting it. I still did this on my day off from work that i took so i can catch up on some of my restoration work at home.loosing valuable not existing free time. So its understandable that comments like that $hit me right off. At least i went through the effort posting pics so people can see for them selves. disclamer to my pics and dimensions. It was measured from an original car as accurate as possible. Is it correct or not?make your own decision Any decision that you made using these dimensions are at your own risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nizm0zed Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Nizm0zed I'm not sure if that last comment was directed at me or Veloce?Regardles uncalled for. Poor attempt at humour to show that perhaps some people are being a bit too pedantic about where exactly to drill a hole. at the end of the day, its a datsun, there were thousands of them made each year. its not rare, its not worth $1M. These cars were assembled by people, with the whole 'human factor' when it came to measuring. Sure they would have had templates to use, but im sure there was an acceptable variance even within the factory. I apologise if my crappy attempt at humour was taken the wrong way, that was not my intent, although im sure few people will say how much they appreciate people like you and Alan (HS30-H) sharing the wealth of knowledge and experience you have, its very valuable information for us all to have in the open public domain and we all do truly appreciate it. personally, if someone was to criticize my car because its not built to original factory condition, i would politely introduce their butt to my boot, but i also accept that some people do enjoy that facet of ownership/restoration and i guess at the end of the day it does increase the overall 'value' both historically and physically to still have pristine examples available to be seen in the flesh and enjoyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doudous Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 My car was an Aussie delivered WITH fender mirrors... I still have the original rectangle shaped mirrors (which I didn't like) and replaced them with JDM style bullet mirrors I purchased from the USA..... The placement looked exactly the same as the JDM zed I recently sold... To me it looks strange to not be placed on the outer edges of the fender...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris240 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 [quote. author=Fairlady Z link=topic=4316.msg119160#msg119160 date Nizm0zed I lost over an hour digging the panel out of storage removing and breaking the other plug so i can take reasonable measurements and help fellow zedder out. That includes uploading the pics, editing sensitive info out of the image and posting it. I still did this on my day off from work that i took so i can catch up on some of my restoration work at home.loosing valuable not existing free time. So its understandable that comments like that $hit me right off. Wow... On my day off, I fixed mums washing machine, retuned my parents set top box, exchanged some kids clothes at westfield, put a load of washing on, spent over an hour at Woolies, did pick up duties at school , folded clothes for what seemed an eternity, and finally got to play with the zed when the wife came home.... Yes.....I really feel for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexual_sushi Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Alright enough. Get back on topic. Place the mirrors wherever you want (I would too). Post photos here and measurements and even your experience with how functional they are and post why you placed them where you did (don't claim it is correct if you looked up some pictures from the internet and took a punt). If you are looking for factual information on where the mirrors could have been placed from the factory, listen to Alan's posts and filter through the comments from other knowledgable members (the title of this thread does state "CORRECT PLACEMENT"). BOTH are valuable resources for many different reasons. And quit the whinging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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