Scando Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Hi folks I'm wanting to setup a computer on my L28ET with sequential injetion and ignition. I'm having trouble working out which way to go for an RPM sensor/trigger. I was wondering if anybody on the forum has done this before on an L series or could point me in the right direction? Cheers Shane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zedman240® Posted April 23, 2009 Moderators Share Posted April 23, 2009 Good timing Shane, I'm just about to do the same thing! I went to Steve Newing last week and bought some bits to do it. With the Wolf V500, you need a crankshaft pulley mounted trigger disc and sensor, a gutted distributor with another trigger disc and sensor. I asked if you could just get away with the trigger disc on the crank shaft pulley but was told it wouldn't do sequential fuel injection..Not sure how it will work with your ECU, you may have to do some more research with someone who knows all about the ECU you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scando Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 Thanks Dimitri I haven't actually purchased an ECU yet but I'm pretty sure it's going to be this: http://www.haltech.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=93&Itemid=20 I'd be very interested in the details of the bits you've bought to set it up. Keep me posted with how you go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeddophile Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 If you want sequential, you usually need both a crank trigger and a cam trigger. Reason for that is that each cylinder requires fuel once every SECOND crankshaft revolution, so the ECU doesn't know which of the two possible cylinders to fire at the given point in the engine revolution if its only seeing crankshaft revolutions. If your ECU permits (no idea if any do or not), it could theoretically be possible to run off just a cam sensor, as long the software is able to be told that its rpm signal is coming in at half actual engine speed. Much more accurate to run both sensors though. Speaking of accurate, while a modified dizzy is a pretty easy way to do it, on some cars you can get a bit of signal jitter due to slack in the drivegear/chain etc that actually runs the dizzy. Can't remember how a zed dizzy is driven, so don't know how much of an issue it is with them, but its usually not a real big problem. However, if its possible to pick up a signal directly off the camshaft (weld a small block on one end, or even perhaps onto the camgear itself?), that is the ideal world solution. In this situation you'd usually only need one tooth on the cam, simply as a reference pointer to the ecu to say "number 1 cylinder hits top dead center x degrees of rotation after this signal." As far as crankshaft triggers go, you can buy various amount of teeth wheels from many suppliers, just make sure that the number of teeth is usuable with your computer (some won't handle certain tooth combinations with x number of cylinders), and that the sensor you get to read it will be able to a) read the wheel properly without losing teeth due to the spacing, and b) will send a signal that your ECU can handle. Another option depending on your balancer may be to actually machine teeth into that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedback Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Shane, I looked into sequential ignition when I did my Megasquirt on the 280zx. Everything I read suggested there was no real world advantage, despite the theoretical advantage. If I remember, mine batch fire twice per cycle, can be more if the injectors can cycle quickly enough. I did setup ignition control using the stock electronic dizzy (which is shaft driven off the oil pump). Just feed the red/green sensor wire signal to the MS instead of the igniter pack. You don't have to do toothed crank wheels if you don't want to with MS. Cheers, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zedman240® Posted April 23, 2009 Moderators Share Posted April 23, 2009 With the RB25DE and it's cam angle sensor running the Wolf V500, I was able to run sequential injection. Wolf make a universal trigger disc for various engines/cylinders so when you buy it ($49), you have to remove some teeth that are not used. Steve Newing knows by heart which ones are needed for a L6 so he would be the best person to ask. One good idea would be to adapt a RB series cam angle sensor on the front of the L series rocker cover eliminating the crank pulley sensor. Bit of work which I might look into. You also need to hall effect sensors; $85 each. The only advantage to sequential is fuel economy when putting around on light throttle. My previous Wolf was setup to batch fire two injectors per cycle so one cylinder was getting fuel for nothing. I have noticed the fuel economy with my RB setup is very good, on 3/4 of a tank of fuel, I can drive to Sandown, race for the day and drive back home with some fuel to spare. Then again the cams are standard so it doesnt drink heaps but I still think that's good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scando Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 I think I've found my solution, BIG thanks to Garvice. He'll post something up in this thread sometime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zedman240® Posted April 23, 2009 Moderators Share Posted April 23, 2009 Jane, if you wanted to see what I'm running, if you look in the section on engine conversions I posted up a stage by stage build up of my thing. It should explain most of the details. I'd be interested to see what Garvice has come up with too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garvice Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 No Pros here I'm sorry. I have a 280zx Turbo distributor. Looks like the one in this thread. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?p=914750&highlight=distributor#post914750 This distributor has a metal disc with 360 slots around the outside and 6 equal width slots in the middle. This spins through a sensor which generates a pulse signal based on the slots (The sensor is basically a optical triggered transistor, has a light on one side of the metal disc and a sensor on the other side). On the bottom of the distributor is a plug with four pins, one is power, one is ground, one is for the 360 slots and one is for the 6 slots. (I.E. One is your sync signal and one is your ref signal). The RB30 distributor I got had the same size disc with 360 slots but instead of having six even size slots it had 5 even size ones and one larger one (cyl 1 designation). Here is a photo of my distributor from the top with the RB30 disc installed. http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q63/garvice/?action=view¤t=IMG_1384.jpg I did not install the RB30 sensor for a few reasons. - My L28 one was fine and is the same construction as the RB30 one (Would be surprised if they are any different on the inside). - The RB30 ones terminals were all corroded and looked like it had seen better days. - The RB30 ones have the plug coming out the side instead of the bottom which would have meant a modification to the distributor housing. - I can't remember if they had the same sensor mounting holes? My tuner said he regularly runs rb30s with this sensor disc to 9000rpm. Above that he moves to custom magnetic sensors off of the crank shaft (Due to slack in the chain getting the timing off a little). But 9000rpm is huge in my case since I don't go above ~6000rpm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zedman240® Posted April 24, 2009 Moderators Share Posted April 24, 2009 Looks like I'm on the hunt for one of those L28ET distributors as well as Shane. Garvice, the one you bought, was that on eBay a while ago? It looks like that distributor will save me some work since it will do two things at once in one simple installation....now the fun begins trying to locate one! Thanks for your info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garvice Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 No, the car I bought already had one installed. I changed it to sequential though. I have the cad drawings for the cover I got made up to go over distributor. If anyone is interested I can email them through. Pictures are in this thread, price was about $150 to get these peices made (Inc material) http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=139854 There are other options for the trigger mount though. Look up Derek on hybridz, he makes a crank mounted trigger wheel and sensor mount. Also BHJ harmonic balances also make a trigger wheel, but no sensor mount. There are also guys like braap on hybridz that have turned down EDIS wheels to go sequential with out a computer controlling spark (Look up EDIS on hybridz search engine). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garvice Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Jane you are getting off topic here. I will send you a PM so that we don't ruin Shane's thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeddophile Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Shane, I looked into sequential ignition when I did my Megasquirt on the 280zx. Everything I read suggested there was no real world advantage, despite the theoretical advantage. If I remember, mine batch fire twice per cycle, can be more if the injectors can cycle quickly enough. I did setup ignition control using the stock electronic dizzy (which is shaft driven off the oil pump). Just feed the red/green sensor wire signal to the MS instead of the igniter pack. You don't have to do toothed crank wheels if you don't want to with MS. Cheers, Mike You really ARE just as sick in the head as I am - making your own panels AND installing Megasquirt! I AM NOT ALONE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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