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#41 Sirpent

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 11:59 AM

Hi all,

Well while the body is getting to the final pre-paint stages as far as repairs and dressing up of the main panels, I decided to contact Fraser at ALFA MOTORSPORT FIBREGLASS to discuss the "G" nose for my "Z" and happy to say I have ordered an upper section which will take a few weeks to make up.

I've decided to go for a Hybrid more contemporary "G" nose look, so I will be grafting or rather creating a lower section which will be along the lines of the lower part of Porsche-Carrera-GT pictured to create a bumperless one piece nose using Frasers upper section pictured also.

Wish me luck, and once again, any and all opinions appreciated and respected.

Cheers

John

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#42 Sirpent

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 12:34 PM

Post Note,

Took a few minutes to quickly morph the two together, think this will work and give ppl a better idea.

Cheers

John

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#43 garvice

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 02:04 PM

I personally don't like Gnoses. Too pointy. I think with the lower lip you are making it look a lot better.

#44 Sirpent

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 02:16 PM

Thanks for the thumbs up Garvice

#45 620Z

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 03:44 PM

Sirpent. Looks good. I agree the bottom section of the G-Nose needs to be modified.
Just a pointer to think about. If you place the bottom lip too far forward you will bottom it out every where because there is far more over hang on the Zed compared to the car you have pictured. Mine is set back somewhat to avoud this problem so just keep that in mind. I am presuming the car will be lowered.  ;)

#46 zedevan

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 06:25 PM

i think it will look awesome, specially if you integrate the led parker/indicator assembly off a 911 or something

or if you're going to get headlight covers for it, run them up the inside upper edge of the buckets aston martin style - and retrofit some projectors. this is what i plan to do once my car is back on the road - so give it 10 years! (there are some led strips linked to on hybridz which would be perfect for it)

http://www.seriouswh...ht-1024x768.jpg

how are you going to make up the shape? there some pictures of a zed with an s2k front spoiler on it, which roughly fits, and you could try an mx5 bumper? assuming the porsche is far to wide and pricey and cut up...

#47 Sirpent

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 07:36 PM

Thanks ZZZ and Zedevan,

ZZZ youre right of course, I will be lowing the car, but Im going to keep the nose a reasonable height also, will probably use the speed hump down the road a s a guage.

LOL Zedevan,

Cant give away all my trade secrets but the pics I post once I start will explain every step, when I say from scratch, I mean from scratch, I wont be using a doner lower half, rather build up a base then work fibreglass over the top, after its all done I will send it back to ALFA as a complete single assy and get Fraser to produce a female mould then have a carbon fibre final made up, never know Fraser may like it enough to start producing them.

As for the lamps, Im going to run normal H4's with the parker lamp provisions, and I like the look of either the later model integra parkers which I will use as turn signal / repeaters as the shape is almost perfect.

The Aston link you posted looks great, but I dont want to go too far with the fron, still want to keep it retro considering the rest of the car.

By the way, our cars must be pretty close in build date and number as mine was the same color originally and the rego (I still have) is IEG-380.

Cheers

John



#48 Brabham

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 07:37 PM

Do Alfa do a standard G nose? If not where could I get one, how much are they, do they bolt straight on and can I get headlight covers for them. Also, does anyone know what the drag coefficient of normal nose vs G nose is? They ran a G at Le Mans so I assume it must be a bit lower.

#49 Sirpent

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 07:43 PM

Brab,

The pic of the G-nose I posted is the complete 2 piece assy ALFA make, Fraser the owner sent me the pic I posted here.

Fraser want $500 for the 2 sections, upper and lower.

HL covers are a problem, you can get them with the stainless surrounds from the States, but expect to pay $600.00

Its pretty much a bolt on, but every Zed front is slightly different due to wear tear and accidents over the years so you will need to do some work to make it all line up.

A U.S. mag back in the 70's did some tests on the G-Nose, there was an increase of 15 Mph top end, a reduction of 5% fuel consumption and the nose apparently, these are figures off the top of my head from memory, but you can find it on the web, just do a search.

Cheers

John



#50 Sirpent

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 07:51 PM

Brab,

Di a quick search on the net, this is what Car and Driver magazine back in the early 70's wrote about the nose when it was released in the States as an option.

"Datsun, at least in Japan, has some equally impressive parts that it doesn’t widely advertise. Fortunately, car enthusiasts in the homeland can buy a version of the Z-car known as the 240ZG (260ZG for 1974).

...

From an aerodynamic point of view, the G-nose is a gold mine. It includes all the parts necessary to reshape the Z-car’s front end from the lower edge of the hood forward. The new panels bolt on in about two hours adding 4.8 inches to the overall length of a ‘73 car and 7.3 inches to pre-bumper era ’72 or earlier cars.

The G-nose reduces drag because of the extra length - it’s that much closer to a bullet shape - and also due to the fact that the grille opening is much tighter and the headlamp openings are sealed.

At 70 mph the gain in fuel economy (is) 1.2 mpg.

And there are other side benefits. The top speed on Ontario’s straight is up from 115 mph with the stock 240Z to 120 with the G-nose. And front end lift is less than stock by 95 pounds at 70 mph.

Unfortunately, the G-nose doesn’t come cheap. The complete package is available... for $635 with headlamp covers, or $475 without"

#51 zedevan

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 09:38 PM

i assumed you were going to do it the cheapest and easiest way :P lol, but it will look sweet, and would go nicely with the wide body kit alfa fibreglass sell so they should make the mould for free!

mine's 010061, and was bought on the 17th of Feb in '76 - i wonder at what stage of the build they are dated (mine's 01/76, so surely it would have taken awhile to get to aus?)? and if they restarted the vin's at 010000 after a certain change?

is your car going to be sprayed the orginal colour?

#52 Brabham

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 11:04 PM

Thanks for that - I think it is worth it for a 10kmh top speed increase as well as all the other benefits. Will have to get one. Would be good to do a z in the Le Mans color scheme. :D

#53 Sirpent

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 07:33 AM

Zedevan,

mine is a 05/75 2 seater RS30 chassis # 005067, so almost 5000 units before yours, but only 7 months apart from registration dates.

Alas, when I got the car I hated the color so much I nicknamed the car "Kermit" Im now tossing up between a Honda Pearl Red Color, A Pearl Charcol, or Champagne Gold, guess I will only come down to the color choice by the time its ready to get edged up.

Cheers

John

#54 620Z

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 09:24 AM

I must say the G-Nose also helps the stability of the car at high speed. At 250klm my car sticks to the road like glue. No wondering. It's as stable as anything. But don't ask me where I did that speed.  ;D
Sirpent also be aware it's not about getting over speed humps it's about going up driveways and sharp rises. The over hang could become a problem for you there.
I=On the light front. I am with you Evan. I have found a Porsche head light (late model) that might fit the G-Nose with very little mod. something for me to work on 5 years down the track. It's lower on the priority list of mods at the moment. ;)

#55 Sirpent

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 10:20 AM

Craig,

Realise the point about the drive way situation, I also own a Soarer SC400 coupe with airbag adjustable suspension and am always careful when going up the driveway, angled approach is always the best, but buddy the humps out my way are so high and steeply raked that if I can approachone without that overhang scraping before the front wheels make contact with the hump some 25 minutes later with the hybrid G-Nose Im planning I should be right for all other scenario's.............LOL

If you and Evan can find the Porsche lamp you mentioned, I could try morphing it into that illustration of the nose to see what the effect would be like.

Cheers

John


#56 RBZ 260

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 11:06 AM

nice work sirpent. that gnose should look sweet. may even put an order for one.

good to see that some even "finished" cars like Craigs beast there are more plans in the future for improvments. i havent even finished mine 100% no door trims or center console or rear covers but ive allready scheduled some big changes for it.

i dont think ill be able to take mine to 250km/h cause even at 190km/h (done in controlled invironment like Craigs test......  :P) the front does feel floaty.
i do have a upgrade in the plans for a bigger front spoiler hoping to keep the nose bit more down.

funny i also had a look at few round sloping headlights that may fit in the headlight cones.

though none cheap. i had a look at new mini ones, daewoo matiz, dodge neon. saying that i never got one to see how close it will look. which porsche are we talking about craig? the 997? ouch in $$$ if that one.

i want to improve the look of the 2+2 without going to flares (saving them for the 240) not a big fan of body kits (most a freaking ugly anyway)

but may go the old fashioned moding hot roding and improving the troubled lines of the 2+2. big job but have the parts and tools just need to find the time. 

dont want it to look like something else still want it to be recognised as Z. but still cause lot of confusion among the Z community. so keep an eye out on my re-rebuild in few months.

#57 chartoo

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 11:12 AM

With the bottom half of the Gnose this pic might help with an idea of a more modern bumper on a zed

Posted Image

http://forums.hybrid...ad.php?t=130044



#58 Sirpent

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 11:40 AM

Thanks RBZ, Im chatting to Fraser at ALFA via email ping pong about the upper nose which he has started to fabricate for me and about getting the finished item back to him once I finish the re-modelling to get a mould made up for the final production of mine in carbon fibre, he likes the design so im pretty sure it may become available down the track, will keep everyone posted.

Good luck with the 2+2 re-model, I think its got a lot of posibilities, it's just that roof line that ruin's the body flow (Just my opinion) but a lot of potential if you are willing to put in the effort.

With the bottom half of the Gnose this pic might help with an idea of a more modern bumper on a zed

Posted Image

http://forums.hybrid...ad.php?t=130044



Chartoo, thats damn close to what I came up with and if I was going for the normal "Z" front think that would be the way I'd go.

Thanks for the post to both of you.

Cheers

John

#59 garvice

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 12:11 PM

What is the thought behind going carbon fibre?
Is the carbon going to be painted or natural?
If it is going to be painted, then wouldn't a urethane bumper be more forgiving on the driveways/bumps?

If it is natural then cool and be careful not to scrape.

#60 Sirpent

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 02:34 PM

Garvice

In response to your question, there are a lot of so called carbon fibre products on the market, the difference being that some are made using Polyester resin being the cheapest product and others made using epoxy resin.

I intend having my nose made using epoxy resin as it has the following qualities that surpass fibregalss and polyester resin based carbon fibre products.

Epoxy resin based carbon fibre products are extremely flexible. The flexibility allows a carbon fiber product to absorb a high level of impact force without breaking unlike Polyester resin products.

Epoxy resin does not spider-crack. When epoxy reaches its maximum bending potential (MBP), it will form only a single crack at the stress point unlike polyester products which which are inflexible and will spider-crack at the merest bend, spider cracks fracture from the point of damage and are very difficult to fix.

Epoxy resin does not shrink and is 100% UV resistant, while Polyester resin will shrink over time and alter the shape of the final product, resulting in installation headaches and additional modifications for proper fit and is not UV resistant, thats why you see a lot of aftermarket items show a harsh degree of warping.

Apart from these structural points, unlike epoxy based products, excessive amounts of polyester resin need to be used during the molding process, this adds considerable weight to the product and defeats the purpose of purchasing lightweight carbon fiber.

Hope this clears up my motives.

Cheers

John







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