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Short or Regulator or what???


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#1 Toecutter

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 08:42 PM

I've recently had a problem with my car not starting. I mean nothing, like the battery is not even connected. I've checked the battery and it is fully charged however I tried to start it directly from the starter motor across a screw driver, nothing once aqain!?
I've heard that these cars have problems with regulators and these symptoms point to it.
Any comments? How does the regulator work and where is it?

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#2 lambs

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 09:05 PM

The black box in that photo is the regulator. It's an aftermarket, solid-state unit which has replaced the original mechnical type. They are very reliable and I doubt that's the source of your problem. From your description it sounds more like the starter motor, and possibly the starter solenoid which is faulty.

It's easy to check whether the charging systems is OK....assuming you have access to a voltmeter. With a fully charged battery and the engine running, the voltage across the battery terminals should be around 14V (lights off). Switching lights on the voltage should drop slightly, but recover with increased revs. If this is the case the charging system is fine.

#3 Toecutter

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 09:16 PM

Hi Lambs,
Thanks. Using a voltmeter I measured 11.5 V across the battery (quite new batt) with car off, but thing is although there is charge in the battery it's as though there is no power. All symptoms are like a dead battery, I tried using the voltmeter across the starter and it also showed 11.5 V car off if that makes any sense!?

#4 lambs

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 09:40 PM

Hi Lambs,
Thanks. Using a voltmeter I measured 11.5 V across the battery (quite new batt) with car off, but thing is although there is charge in the battery it's as though there is no power. All symptoms are like a dead battery, I tried using the voltmeter across the starter and it also showed 11.5 V car off if that makes any sense!?


11.5V is not good. A fully charged new battery should be 12V+ (no load; not charging) and the voltage you've measured suggests the battery is nowhere near fully charged. As soon as you put load across it - and the greatest load is at start - the voltage will drop even further and that might explain your non-start symptoms (my original suggestion assumed the battery was fully charged). I'd strongly suggest putting the battery on a separate charger overnight and then re-check voltage in the morning. Note that if it is a high CCA (capacity) battery it might take longer to come to full charge depending on it's current state. All cells should be bubbling freely when the battery is fully charged (no smoking !!!).

#5 zedevan

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 12:08 AM

i only have 11.5volts at the battery until i'm reving over 2000rpm :shock: hence my questions about upgrading the alternater...

i need to fix up the ground connector on my battery, it often doesn't make a connection and screws all the power in my car, not good while i'm driving! make the lights stobe though which freaks out oncoming cars!

#6 Toecutter

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 06:12 AM

I have heard quite a few people say 11.5 V is no good but I checked the battery on my Co car which is a current model ford falcon with a fairly new batt in it and it also measured 11.5 V when the car was off!? I have tried charging the battery overnight still no good!?
I'll have to try a good strong batt just to surely eliminate that as a cause.

#7 lambs

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 12:30 PM

I have heard quite a few people say 11.5 V is no good but I checked the battery on my Co car which is a current model ford falcon with a fairly new batt in it and it also measured 11.5 V when the car was off!? I have tried charging the battery overnight still no good!?
I'll have to try a good strong batt just to surely eliminate that as a cause.


I'd say the battery is a dud, but are you sure your voltmeter is accurate ??

#8 lambs

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 12:35 PM

i only have 11.5volts at the battery until i'm reving over 2000rpm :shock: hence my questions about upgrading the alternater...

i need to fix up the ground connector on my battery, it often doesn't make a connection and screws all the power in my car, not good while i'm driving! make the lights stobe though which freaks out oncoming cars!


11.5 volts@2000rpm is also not good, but if that reading is from the factory dash gauge I'd be double checking with an accurate voltmeter. The factory gauges aren't the most accurate in the world.

Stock alternator is Ok for standard car, but if you have stronger lights + a sound system, an alternator upgrade is a good idea. Also turf the standard regulator if you still have it and either get a solid-state one (pic above) or an internal reg alternator.

#9 warrenz

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 03:59 PM

hi

Can you jump start it, that would prove the soleniod and starter motor if it started and point to battery and or regulator.

Cheers
Warren

#10 Zeddophile

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 05:04 PM

what do you mean, you tried to bridge the starter with the screwdriver? I assume you mean from the postive battery lead (at starter) onto the small spade terminal at the side (exciter wire). If you mean across the main terminals, you should got a pretty good bit of sparking happening.... If you didn't, theres a serious issue there...

Do your lights etc work? Everything should dim or turn off when you try to crank it, even if the batterys flat. If this doesn't happen, and you aren't even getting a click from the starter solenoid, its cactus. Try tapping the side of the starter solenoid with a hammer a couple of times, then turn the key....

11.5 volts is low, but you would normally get at least a click out of the starter at that voltage, unless its a tiny battery.... Like warren said, jump start from your falcon while its running (the falcon!) and try that. If you still aren't getting anything, definitely starter fault - or earth lead fault.

#11 Toecutter

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 05:52 PM

I'd say the battery is a dud, but are you sure your voltmeter is accurate ??

Yer the multimeter I've got is Ash's I'm pretty sure it works fine.

hi

Can you jump start it, that would prove the soleniod and starter motor if it started and point to battery and or regulator.

Cheers
Warren


hi warren, yer tried jump starting it with the falcon as soon as I had this problem but no go, made no difference at all.

what do you mean, you tried to bridge the starter with the screwdriver? I assume you mean from the postive battery lead (at starter) onto the small spade terminal at the side (exciter wire). If you mean across the main terminals, you should got a pretty good bit of sparking happening.... If you didn't, theres a serious issue there...

Not across the battery but straight across the starter.

Do your lights etc work? Everything should dim or turn off when you try to crank it, even if the batterys flat. If this doesn't happen, and you aren't even getting a click from the starter solenoid, its cactus. Try tapping the side of the starter solenoid with a hammer a couple of times, then turn the key....

11.5 volts is low, but you would normally get at least a click out of the starter at that voltage, unless its a tiny battery.... Like warren said, jump start from your falcon while its running (the falcon!) and try that. If you still aren't getting anything, definitely starter fault - or earth lead fault.

Hi Ben, if I bridge the batt quickly it does spark however in the car there is not even enough power for the little handbrake light to turn on, so nothing works, does'nt even come close to cranking. You'd assume flat battery but with 11.5 V showing I should at least have a minimal amount of batt power to operate parkers etc should I!???
Very wierd I've checked the main wires from the battery and there does'nt seem to be any corrosion and as I said measuring voltage supply at the starter connections also shows 11.5V??????

Obviously I'm not an electrical wiz but it all seems a bit strange. I've had plenty of cars with bad starter motors over the years and lived with a hammer under the seat on some occasions for the occasional knock to get home but this has got me stumped, my trickle charger shows battery full light on!

#12 Zeddophile

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 05:56 PM

its sounding rather like you need a new battery..... Either that or you have a really bad earth connection.... Maybe start by disconnecting the battery earth lead at both ends, cleaning all surfaces with some sandpaper, then reconnect.

If you don't even have enough power in the battery for the handbrake light to come on, then jump starting it probably won't work.... Think a new battery is probably a good start.

#13 Toecutter

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 07:06 PM

i was told to check on a "fusable link". Tinkered with a small box on drivers side that seemed to have a freyed wire, car started on first go after that. Gotta have a better look during daylight hours tmrw!

THanx Fellas

#14 Enzo

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 08:20 PM

fusable links can be ordered from Nissan or made cheaper by an auto electrician. If your car has the originals still connected they should be replaced.
David.

#15 Toecutter

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 09:08 PM

Got home just as it was getting dark and had a quick play around with what I think is the fusable link. Results are good seeing the car kicked over and started first turn of the key and kept starting reliably. I'll take a better look tmrw but just to be sure I've taken a photo of what I think is the fusable link.
Any comments guys? Is this the fusable link?

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#16 Enzo

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Posted 22 March 2006 - 01:09 AM

Hi, looks like your on the money. Different from the one on my 1976 260z but i would say that's it. Check for corrosion on the connections and when the motor is running put your finger on it to check for heat. if too hot it means the connection is faulty. Good luck.

#17 lambs

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Posted 22 March 2006 - 08:41 AM

Got home just as it was getting dark and had a quick play around with what I think is the fusable link. Results are good seeing the car kicked over and started first turn of the key and kept starting reliably. I'll take a better look tmrw but just to be sure I've taken a photo of what I think is the fusable link.
Any comments guys? Is this the fusable link?


They are the fusible links - early 260Z's are the same. A fault here might cause power supply problems to the start cct, but I'd have to check the wiring diagram. Worth checking for corrosion, etc, but the low battery voltage should still be investigated.

#18 Toecutter

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Posted 22 March 2006 - 09:01 AM

Thanks fellas.

#19 pauly_adams

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 12:53 AM

this is gunna sound realy strange but i had the same prob i worked out after bout a week and a half it was the ignition leads where arching out on the car(dodgy wiring) after fiddling with that it worked fin so check that out if u still have probs :wink:




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