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Inserts for sectioned struts


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#1 zr240

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 04:44 PM

Hi All

Just after some info on what shorter strut options (front and rear) there are for the 240z.

I want to section about 25-50mm or so as I want to lower my car a bit more and are running out of travel.

I have heard MR2 struts are shorter but only can find info on international sites and thought would be good to get local info etc.

Let me know if im making sence here :)

Ash

#2 Lurch ™

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 05:25 PM

Your making sense :)
AE92 struts I believe are suitable - I'd need to confirm though.

OR you could always turret your strut towers by 25mm mate ;D
That's what I'll be doing...



#3 Mr240z

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 05:26 PM

Ash talk to a bloke called Ken at Jim Hunter's suspension at Blacktown nsw

He just sorted me out with special Koni red's for a lowed 240z

He lives and breaths shocks. Tell him Paul from autopro homebush sent you.

http://www.yellowpag...sw-3739408.html

p.s ask him about the MR2 struts that will fit , he'd know.

#4 zed240au

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 07:20 PM

i sectioned my struts 50 mm and used my front inserts in rear struts and got some vw rabbit front strut inserts for front they are 75 mm shorter so i made up 25 mm spacer from 40 mm exhaust pipe too adjust to suit the 50 mm sectioning

got brand new vw rabbit bilstein inserts for front from usa for less than a third of what local bilstein guy wanted

i also fitted adjustable camber plates from arizona z car all round which with twin 2.5" exhaust made car bit lower than i wanted with 15" wheels so ended up fitting 17 " wheels very happy now

#5 Lurch ™

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 07:42 PM

Ash, apprently the AE92 ones fit - they are about 50mm shorter.

Z31 inserts fit & are a bit longer than the AE92 ones, but still shorter than OEM items.

#6 zr240

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 12:01 PM

Thanks for all the great replies

at the moment Im doing it a bit on the cheap so the bil's and konis are going to be a bit deal but thanks for the info anyways

Thanks

#7 nat0_240_chevZ

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 03:51 PM

z31 strut inserts only fit the 260z strut, yes mr2 and other toyota (similar / same part #) fit.

basically there are 4 types (main) that are similar in design available,
i had posted ages ago about a cross refference chart i had posted from monroe. look into their product catalgues etc as the have diagrams and dimensions open, closed and shft and body lengths.

from my research ages ago also i found that you can used shorter strut cartridges without sectioning the struts, as you use a cylinder type spacer ontop of the insert between the gland nut and strut body. but big enought to stay around the edge of the insert shaft as it could scratch it if loose etc.

this is the easiest mod i feel and is suited to lowering the car if you use heavier spring rates as you dont need all that extra travel sectioning gives you back, i mean how often do you want to scrape the sump or croossmember on the ground.
You still have about 1-1 & 3/4 inches of travel after lowering on the struts, so if racing or running stiffer springs i wouldnt even bother with the sectioning.
If youre using for rally then this is a different story.

I definatley still have the pdf's somewhere either here at work or at home.

ill have a look anyways.

nat0

#8 kevinlvy

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 04:59 PM

z31 strut inserts only fit the 260z strut, yes mr2 and other toyota (similar / same part #) fit.

basically there are 4 types (main) that are similar in design available,
i had posted ages ago about a cross refference chart i had posted from monroe. look into their product catalgues etc as the have diagrams and dimensions open, closed and shft and body lengths.

from my research ages ago also i found that you can used shorter strut cartridges without sectioning the struts, as you use a cylinder type spacer ontop of the insert between the gland nut and strut body. but big enought to stay around the edge of the insert shaft as it could scratch it if loose etc.

this is the easiest mod i feel and is suited to lowering the car if you use heavier spring rates as you dont need all that extra travel sectioning gives you back, i mean how often do you want to scrape the sump or croossmember on the ground.
You still have about 1-1 & 3/4 inches of travel after lowering on the struts, so if racing or running stiffer springs i wouldnt even bother with the sectioning.
If youre using for rally then this is a different story.

I definatley still have the pdf's somewhere either here at work or at home.

ill have a look anyways.

nat0


hmmm interesting i was also thinking of buying kits or that stuff so with the easy mod by nat0 may i have a chance of saving money and slamming my car. thanks for the info do hope you find the pdfs

#9 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 08:11 PM

Originally posted by nat0_240_chevZ
.....basically there are 4 types (main) that are similar in design available,
i had posted ages ago about a cross refference chart i had posted from monroe. look into their product catalgues etc as the have diagrams and dimensions open, closed and shft and body lengths.....


Mate, I would be very happy to know the details of that research...

I get a lot of enquiry for Z-car strut inserts as I do a good discount price for forum members (more than 25%) on Konis. This question comes up all the time.

.....from my research ages ago also i found that you can used shorter strut cartridges without sectioning the struts, as you use a cylinder type spacer on top of the insert between the gland nut and strut body. but big enough to stay around the edge of the insert shaft as it could scratch it if loose etc.

this is the easiest mod i feel and is suited to lowering the car if you use heavier spring rates as you don't need all that extra travel sectioning gives you back, i mean how often do you want to scrape the sump or crossmember on the ground.
You still have about 1-1 & 3/4 inches of travel after lowering on the struts, so if racing or running stiffer springs i wouldn't even bother with the sectioning.
If you're using for rally then this is a different story.....


Your basic proposition makes sense here... and then there's the ongoing value argument in its favour too...

I also don't like the idea of modifying the strut towers to suit, and that goes in concert with K-Mac's basic design philosophy too, where they have designed everything they make to bolt in to existing bodywork or suspension members.  Kevin does a very good job with that.

#10 Lurch ™

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 08:41 PM

Glad to have you aboard Ray ;)

Can you please let us know your contact details, so as our members can get in contact with you for Koni pricing?


#11 Whittie

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 08:47 PM

I would love to know some more about this if anyone has some solid info.

I am having issues with my car bottoming out on the strut inserts, but don't want to have to chop/weld anything and don't have any budget for coil-overs. I have long suspected you could just get strut inserts with longer travel, but this is promising. Has anyone here successfully installed strut inserts with more travel for longer suspension travel in a 260z without having to cut the struts up?

**EDIT** editted for correct wording

#12 Lurch ™

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 08:51 PM

Yes - use standard length inserts.

#13 Whittie

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 10:11 PM

Lurch,

So, I get confused with the terminology a bit. What I meant was: Is it possible to get strut inserts that have a longer travel and will install in the standard struts without cutting and welding the struts themselves to make them shorter? I have Koni Red's at the moment, internally adjustable, and I have busted the valves due to bottoming out. I don't need much extra travel, but everything helps. I have also just purchased some polyurethane bump stops which will help as well, I'm looking to offset the suspension travel they consume, in an effort to maintain maximum linearity in the suspension travel.

Cheers.

#14 NZeder

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 08:07 AM

Not sure I fully understand your issue Whittie - so you have koni red for the stock length/replacing the stock insert. You are bottoming out and damaging the adjustment valve on the bottom. Sounds like the bump stops are warn out - hence your new purchase of bump stops I guess. So that should protect the valves. But the question is why are you bottoming out - it takes a bit of travel to bottom out the stock suspension. Given you track the car I am thinking you are running way too soft of spring rate for this type of work.

So what springs are you running?

This is a little of topic so to swing this back around - my 260z 2 seater 76/77, just like yours, but it had section struts however I was not using coil overs. The setup Lovell 225lb springs front and rear, larger front sway bar and none on the rear and koni yellows (adjustment on the tops, I can't recall the insert but I have the partnumbers somewhere will check and post here for reference). The rear springs were just captive at their free length = did not need a spring compressor to install just need to two people, 1 to press the top down while the other got the nut started.

So this old setup I had still had the stock spring perches in the stock location - but the strut was sections above this location for the short insert bodies.

#15 NZeder

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 08:11 AM

Ok found the partnumber that were used in my old setup.

The Fronts were 8641-1146 = Toyota Corolla GT 88-93 (AE92 as stated above my Lurch)

And the rears were 8641-1041 = Discontinued :( were from a 82-86 Toyota Supra I think

I have since sold these inserts (I had them rebuilt) to a local 240z owner for his targa/track/road 240z - but I have kept the sections struts - not for sale but I can measure the length if required.


#16 Whittie

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 10:13 AM

Cheers Mike.

The issue is that I have lowered the car too far with shorter springs and now there is not enough strut insert travel. It seems to bottom out well and truely before the end of where I would have thought the stroke would be. There is a good 3cm of rod sticking out the insert when it is fully compressed, I would like to recover some of this.

I like your idea however, of sectioning the strut WITHOUT changing the spring perch height. If you could please measure this then that is the route I will take. I am very happy with the ride height and spring rates, I just need some extra travel, which it sounds like the AE92 strut inserts will give me.

#17 nat0_240_chevZ

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 11:52 AM

Lurch,

So, I get confused with the terminology a bit. What I meant was: Is it possible to get strut inserts that have a longer travel and will install in the standard struts without cutting and welding the struts themselves to make them shorter? I have Koni Red's at the moment, internally adjustable, and I have busted the valves due to bottoming out. I don't need much extra travel, but everything helps. I have also just purchased some polyurethane bump stops which will help as well, I'm looking to offset the suspension travel they consume, in an effort to maintain maximum linearity in the suspension travel.

Cheers.

yes ther are inserts with more travel that almost go straight in.......
HOWEVER its not the travel of the insert, its the top of the strut tube smacking your bumpstop out the top of your tower, and this is appearant even on stock ride height with stock suspension, ie chuck a u-turn through a spoon drain to proove.
DONT SUGGEST you try but if you did accidently you will know what im talking about.
nat0

#18 NZeder

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 12:23 PM

Cheers Mike.

The issue is that I have lowered the car too far with shorter springs and now there is not enough strut insert travel. It seems to bottom out well and truely before the end of where I would have thought the stroke would be. There is a good 3cm of rod sticking out the insert when it is fully compressed, I would like to recover some of this.

I like your idea however, of sectioning the strut WITHOUT changing the spring perch height. If you could please measure this then that is the route I will take. I am very happy with the ride height and spring rates, I just need some extra travel, which it sounds like the AE92 strut inserts will give me.

That explains it Tom :) I kept the struts for what I am guessing is the same reason you don't want to go coilovers - to have that stock look and no issue with classic racing rules if they are looking for stock type setups :)

I have going to the new AZC coilover setup - ie whole shock is threaded blah blah - but kept the old setup without the inserts as you never know one day I might just go back to this type of setup - keeping my options open ;)

I will pop out to the garage after work tonight and get the camera and tape out. Now for others this set is for the later 260z struts in the later shell ie has the taller rear strut towers. Also this setup was using the shorter isolators on the tops. If I recall correctly one of the inserts was installed with a spacer/packer on the bottom, however I can't recall if this was the fronts or the rears now :(

#19 NZeder

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 06:41 PM

Ok pics and measurement time :)

Now I don't have a stock 260z front strut to compare with so only the rear could be compared with a stock 260z rear leg.

All measurements from the bottom of the strut tube to the top without the gland nut installed. So for the front that was the bottom of the strut were the steering arm mounts to the top. And the rears was from the bottom of the casting holding the tube to the top.

My sectioned fronts are 360mm tall.
My sectioned rears are 410mm tall vs stock at 470mm

Now for some pics see the attachments :)

Attached Thumbnails

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  • 19412_43c9fe8b86e7875fb981df6d350936eed07dd410.jpg
  • 19410_005a94c247307ef1b91a26ca2baa311f1b7e182f.jpg


#20 NZeder

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 06:42 PM

More pics of the rears

Attached Thumbnails

  • 19420_b36c81219aca5faabe730a1be6eed4d3c80d1e66.jpg
  • 19418_f437b54af57f6abc8561deeead33d2c14b88c095.jpg





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