NZeder 260z RB26 powered, triple DCOE throttle bodied NA project

[NZeder]

Good to see youre back on the horse Mike....too long between posts on your car!

Yes with a new child/baby in the house I just don't seem to have much time for the project.

[Sirpent]

Hey,

 

Tell you what, Im heading across the ditch in September, how about i come give you a hand on yours and then you return the favour ?

 

I saw a horn cushion complete with mount ring on Ebay the other day, try doing a search on the US Ebay motors site, it looked brand new.

 

John

 

PS : Went looking after I posted

 

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Datsun-280Z-Steering-Wheel-Horn-Pad-/260681630663?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cb1d603c7

 

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/JDM-DATSUN-HORN-BUTTON-510-620-240Z-280Z-BRE-NARDI-MOMO-/160464735547?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item255c718d3b

 

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/1969-DATSUN-280Z-HORN-BUTTON-/330424817753?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ceeda9859

 

 

[NZeder]

Hey,

 

Tell you what, Im heading across the ditch in September, how about i come give you a hand on yours and then you return the favour ?

 

I saw a horn cushion complete with mount ring on Ebay the other day, try doing a search on the US Ebay motors site, it looked brand new.

 

John

Sounds like a plan

 

I have seen those datsun centre horn momo things before on Yahoo Auctions - might have to hit the buy now on that thanks for the link

[NZeder]

John - here is that horn button you link me to

 

New horn button arrived today for the new steering wheel. Picture of the after market NRG rim with the new horn botton next to the factory sports option rim.

 

[Sirpent]

Nice Mike

 

So did you end up buying one from the links?

 

If so geeeez that was quick

 

And sorry to sound so daft, but I cant pick which is which, OEM steering wheels are not my forte LOL

 

I think both look as impressive !

 

Ahhhhhhhhhhh checked it out after I posted so the one on the left is the JDM OEM Wheel, well got to say I like your NG with the OEM button, looks streamlined.

[NZeder]

Ok last night the fabricator finished up with the lower Suzuki Steering Shaft mounting. So this weekend it will be clean and painting of these pieces - I will get some pictures and post more details about the whole setup. However as the car is not wired up yet I can't let you know for sometime how well this is going to work.

 

But for now it is raining and the V8 Supercars are about to start on the tube (I got tickets for yesterday in a corporate  box - now that is way to watch motorsport ).....hmmm need to get a TV in the shed = work and watch at the same time......

[garvice]

Sounds like you need a couple of these in the shed mate (now have castors on front to help move them around). I call them my thinking chairs, and tell my mates they are for me to sit in while they do the work (that hasn't happened yet but I am still crossing my fingers).

 

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q63/garvice/IMG_5640.jpg

[NZeder]

Ok did not get a lot done today - but did get some coats of paint on parts before the Hamilton race started on the box.

 

Anyway here are some pics. 1 = All the parts as listed.

 

1. Suzuki Wagon R Electric Assist Column

2. Cut down 260z outer steering column tube

3. Custom sleeve/bearing holder for Suzuki lower shaft

4. Modified Suzuki lower shafts - modified at the Uni-Joint - had Uni replaced and joined the steering couple mount of the stock Zed shaft when installing the new U-J

5. Stock Suzuki Uni-Joint for mounting lower shaft to column

6. Stock 260z pedal box mounting plate - bolts to pedal box and #2 shown

7. Modified 260z firewall mount - new centre tube to hold bearing/sleeve and Suzuki lower shaft

8. Bearing and C-Clips for holding the sleeve/Suzuki lower shaft in Firewall housing/mount

[NZeder]

And some more bad cell phone pics

 

1. Modified Firewall mount

2. Custom bearing holder/sleeve - you can see were the grub screws go to hold/lock to the Suzuki lower shaft (NZ does not permit any welding to the steering components other than those the factor has done)

3. Suzuki lower shaft with Zed steering coupler jointed via new U-J. C-Clip must be installed before sleeve/bearing holder is insatlled or you can't get it on after the fact

4. Custom bearing holder/sleeve installed - good tight interference fit + grub screws to hold things tight (not installed yet - need to pick some up this week)

 

More pics will come once I put top coat on the firewall mount - sometime soon

[Sirpent]

Very intersesting Mike, looking forward to seeing it in operation.

[NZeder]

Very intersesting Mike, looking forward to seeing it in operation.

Me too. Well did spend 1 hour in the shed today (around 4pm local time) so just in from the test fit up. I needed to do some minor mods to the top housing as it was placing the stock over sleeve/tube too close to the wheel so the indicator dowels on the back of the hub were hitting the stock bearing = hub not mating up correctly.

 

I needed to ease about 4mm out of the stock mount (see post #132 above the part I am talking about is #6) so the stock tube would move down over the stock Suzuki column some more. Now just waiting for the under coat on this part to dry off and later in the week - top coat time and mount up - I will connect up a battery/fuse and give it a test too - never know might have to make my first Youtube video so you can see it working - but its really going to be hard to tell with no load on the rack so the video might have to wait until the car is more together.

[Sirpent]

Getting close Mike, but as always with all of our builds, so close but so far away.

 

Keep it up Mate.

[NZeder]

Getting close Mike, but as always with all of our builds, so close but so far away.

 

Keep it up Mate.

True - and for me I can't help my self, I just keep purchasing other toys to direct my focus. There have been other zed's, datsun's, and my other passion Honda's V4 motorbikes.

 

After 2 years without a V4 bike - I am back on the wagon again. I picked this up today

[Sirpent]

LOL Mike,

 

You and I must have been bitten by the same bug when it comes to buying new toys, you will know what I mean when you read my latest post LMAO

 

But hey, a mans got to get around when his main steed is off the road so I would call your purchase an investment rather than a toy.

 

Nice bike.

 

Cheers

 

John

[Zedman240®]

I better get my bike licence...I'm surrounded by friends with bikes and  I have nothing.. :'(

[NZeder]

Little bit of an update.

 

I have been working on the heater control unit. First some background

 

I want to located the stock heater controls but they are large lever setup. So I thought I would see if I could adapt more modern actuator controls.

 

Anyway the short story I picked up a number of actuators and control units from a few different Nissan's (they are all using the same control setup/wiring and actuators). In the end I went for J30 Maxima controls as these have a cable still for the water tap and Nissan list a part number for a blink cover/button to replace the A/C button on the control unit. FYI these same controls are found on U12 Bluebirds, S13 180sx/200sx, R31 and a few other models. I also picked up N14 Sunny/Pulsar and P10 Primera controls - these are the basically the same - except they have an actuator to control the blend door/Water Tap and have an Auto option on the fan control switch.

 

So much for the short story 

 

The fresh air vent/recycle door was easy a single actuator controls this door. The actuator (motor + gearbox) has just 3 wires. A + feed and two - connected to the recycle button on the control panel.

 

All the actuators all uses the same motor. The gearbox and housing vary and the drive gear has a connector that based on the position close the circuit to ground = so the controller knows which way to drive the motor for button selected.

 

So the recycle actuator has 2 positions one for the door open and then other one for the door closed - that actuator is simple as the motor goes in the same direction and no electronics are involved just the switch - well ok some electronics to drive the LED when recycle is selected.

 

The other modes are controlled by a single actuator and a combo of slip leavers on the side of later model heater units. This was not really going to work for me as I need to operate the foot vents separately as they move on a different plane to the only other door on the factory 260z heater setup. So I used another of the recycle actuators to get the door working with just a switch (called me with wires and a battery) while I worked out the mounting and lever to actuator connection.

 

So that was simple 2 of the 3 factory doors working manually with me as the switch. Now the vent/bi level door.....will post more later - and I will get some pics - and even a wiring diagram I made of the controller circuity and my new additional control board for the foot door.

[Sirpent]

HA, The bug got you Mike !

 

Cant wait to see some pics

[NZeder]

Yes it did John.

 

Anyway ok simple break down.

 

260Z heater lever control has just one lever that controls all 3 doors - so as the lever moves left to right it changed as follows

 

Off  --- Vent --- Bi/Level ---- Heat ---- DEF

 

So the factory doors are like tihs

 

Off = fresh door vent (aka recycle) closed + radiator blend door closed (in the vent position) + foot/cabin doors closed

Vent = fresh door vent open + radiator blend door closed (ie all air out the centre and side dash outlets) + foot/cabin doors closed

Bi/Level = Fresh door vent open + radiator blend door 1/2 open (some air towards the dash outlets rest towards the raditor) + foot/cabin doors open

Heat = Fresh door vent closed + radiator blend door full open (all air in towards the radiator and nothing out the dash outlets) + foot/cabin doors open

DEF = Fresh door vent closed + radiator door full open + foot/cabin door open = air can only go out the DEF outlets which don't have a door on them aka once the blend door is open air can always get to the DEF just very little due to other outlets open.

 

So that is how the factor non air fitted 260z doors work. So how does that match a modern control server? Modern usually have the following buttons

 

Vent (little pic of seater person with arrow in the face)

Vent/Foot (you know the rest )

Foot

Foot/DEF

DEF

Recycle (separate button and actuator)

 

As stated earlier all these modes are changed by just one actuator - however I needed two actuators one for the foot door and another for the vent/blend door. So using the stock actuator which has 5 positions (one for each mode) I hooked this and was just going to stick with vent/blend door moving from closed to open in 5 steps not 3 like the stock lever setup. That is how I left it while I worked on the new control circuit to open or close foot door.

 

So I needed to find something on the control board that I could use to operate the foot/cabin door actuator when the buttons were pressed (the control panels buttons are setup so only one mode can be selected at any one time). So the LED indicating which button is selected was the best option. First I mapped out the current controller circuit board. I have attached this below.

 

Then I made a decision to run the actuator/motor for the foot/cabin door different to the normal setup (no issue as these motors can run in either direction in fact that is what the main actuator does forward and backwards based on the button selected - this is what the circuit board does switches the + and - on the motor based on the position the motor is currently in and were it needs to go). So rather than switching the ground on the motor it was much easier to switch +12 using a PNP transistor switch - now it has been 18+ years since I worked as an electronic tech so I might have gotten the maths a bit wrong on the resistors I used but hey it must be close enough as the circuit works

 

For those who don't under standard electronics this new circuit gets a short to ground (ie when the LED is connected to ground when the button is pressed ie LED is on) and then puts +12 on the wire to the actuator (ie the PNP transistor base goes into saturated mode and collect and emitter are connected ie acts like a switch) . I have since been thinking about the circuit and I am now thinking I might be able to change this  to a much smaller circuit using just 2 x NPN transistors setup as logical not gate (or an inverter circuit if you like) FYI if you use a NPN as a switch you need a + trigger which I could not find on the circuit (there is a + signal but it stops when the main actuator get to the mode position = in some case that not on for long enough to fully open or close the foot/cabin door).

 

I think in the weekend I might give the NPN inverter circuit a crack. Tonight I might just put together a diagram for those electronics engineers out there to check my work/circuit.

 

So then once I was happy with this transistor switch setup I moved back to the main actuator and looked at the diagram as how I could disable the foot/def and def buttons from moving the actuator. This was as simple as making the two pins that are connected when the switch is off and disconnected when on to just make then joined when the switch is on also - so I just solder a link across the two pins on each switch/button so they are always connected = the actuator does not move past the Foot location. So I now have only 3 positions for the main vent door closed, 1/2 open and open just the like the factor cable/lever setup.

 

There you have it - what I did. In the weekend I will get some pics and I might even do my first youtube video.

[NZeder]

New plan for the circuits I am going to pickup a logic CMOS based NAND gate to control the foot/cabin door actuator I have added.

 

I did visit the local pick-a-part and got the Nissan Aircon Amp + most of the loom, I planned to work out how the actuator works for the temp/water tap. However last night I did some reading and I might just make my own circuit - will take me just as long to do that as to trace out the stock unit which has circuits for sun sensors, inside temp sensors etc which I don't need or want. I only want to drive the actuator using the pot on the control panel and the feedback pot from the actuator/servo/gearbox setup.

 

I think I can do this with a standard low powered Op Amps. So during lunch I will pop out to jaycar and get the parts I need to start my new circuit

[Sirpent]

Mike,

 

I have to be honest and say I am still coming to grips with some of the commentary you are providing, nevertheless, I'm sure the result will be something for a lot of people to look forward to as i will be.

 

Ive decided to sit back and watch what you accomplish as retrofitting a system like this does pose some issues as far as not enough actuators for the old Datsun setup, think you know what i mean.

 

Cheers

 

John

[NZeder]

I know what you mean. Your conversion John, how many actuators does that have? Are you planning to use the stock heater box like I am?

[Sirpent]

I know what you mean. Your conversion John, how many actuators does that have? Are you planning to use the stock heater box like I am?

 

Yup

 

I have 3 actuators, however the problem is that with our old school systems you have the heater valve plus 3 doors to operate, think you know what I'm getting at, something I didn't consider earlier, however i have put it aside while I think about it and all I can imagine is running a secondary surrogate actuator for the valve piggy backing off one of the other impulses if that makes sense?

[NZeder]

Makes perfect sense. The issue as you are fully aware is the location of the factory doors and their motion does not nicely match the modern setups. Here is some diagrams that might help others understand

 

The pictures are from the donor Nissan I got the actuators from (well many Nissan share the same actuators it is box/doors/leavers that are different)

 

First the Recycle actuator - this was simple - one for one install. The black boxes/circles show the actuator and the leavers that connect to it. As stated above I used a second of  these actuators on the stock 260z foot/cabin door (will get a pic of the 260z heater and post/attach that also) On the 260z image I have used the same colour to show were I have installed the actuators (matching colour for colour - apart from the black which on the 260z pic has been swapped for orange to show up easier).

 

Next is the modern box - the red shows the main actuator this is the unit that had 5 positions ie Vent, Vent/Foot, Foot, Foot/DeF and Def. The other Red boxes show the lever setup on this single actuator - for each position different doors move via these levers (or not the lever just slides along without moving the door etc). The actuator is mounted to the side of the 260z unit again shown as red. The 260z setup is simple just one door to move so I modified the control circuit so on the Vent, Vent/Foot and Foot button move this through the 3 locations just like the factory cable setup.

 

The blue shows the blend door/water tap actuator and levers, this is what I am currently working on. This uses another control circuit from the air con amplifier. John's heater control panels has this amplifier built-in the unit. But the donor I selected had 2 different control panels, ones with cable water/blend door controls and then ones that have the actuator and amp circuit installed.

 

Again looking at the 260z unit you can see the extra orange box/circle which is another recycle actuator that I have installed to operate the foot/cabin doors.

[NZeder]

Like you say John to drive the extra actuator I had to build a piggy back circuit that controls this based on the selections from the control panel. This is one reason I have gone for a panel that has separate buttons for the different modes as I can link my piggy back circuit off the buttons. Currently in phase 1 test using the transistors I am using the grounding of the LED on each button to control this extra actuator.

 

I have found a spare pin on each button that I can use for a new circuit to control this extra actuator - aka phase 2 test circuit. I am going to use a Logic gate to control the actuator on this circuit. I just need to check what state this spare pin is in when the button is on or off to know if I need to stick with the ground leg on the LED and a Logic NAND gate or if this pin can be used then what Logic control do I need, NOR, ExOR, ExNOR etc.

[NZeder]

Well you make me look did you John.....I have spent the last 1/2 hour looking over the Nissan Fast system and what do I find - a model of Nissan that is now 20 years old aka should be lots of wrecks around, and how many actuators does it have no matter which model controller is install (ie buttons or fanny like yours) the setup as 4 actuators.

 

One for recycle, one for blend/water tap, one for vent door, and the main unit. So this looks like this might work....now I am going to have to try and find one of these in the local pick-a-part and rob it of parts.