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Steves plan to upgrade Suspension, Brakes and Wheels.


stevo_gj

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Hey gang,

 

Just trawling through Hybridz.org and found this fantastic article that basically outlines 6 different stages of modifying suspension tailored to what you want from your Z.

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=114631

 

Stage 0 is for a stock refurb and Stage 5 is for a race car. Each middle stage progresses between the two. I like the sound of his 'slightly sportier than stock' recommendation Stage 1.

 

Originally posted by jmortensen on www.hybridz.org

STAGE 1 replaces all old parts with stiffer components. This will give you a firmer sporty ride.

1. New outer tie rod ends

2. New ball joints

3. Polyurethane bushings

4. Repack/tighten front wheel bearings

5. Replace rear wheel bearings if needed

6. Aftermarket front and rear swaybars

7. Lowering springs (Eibach, Suspension Techniques, Tokico, MSA, AZC)

8. Aftermarket shocks (Tokico HP, Tokico Illumina, Koni Red)

9. Bumpsteer spacers

 

To the uneducated (namely me), this seems to be a fairly comprehensive list, and I figured I would start attaching prices to each component so that I can figure out how much the whole lot is going to cost. (less labor of course  ;))

 

From Dec - Feb I'll be working at the mines, possibly Oakey Crk, and earning enough money to afford upgrading the Z. One of the first things I'll be doing is upgrading my cars wheels, suspension and brakes. I figure its best to do it all in one go since I'll be able to deal with clearance issues  etc as they occur. Part of my motivation for doing this is that I've noticed a loud knocking sound from what I think is the rear right strut tower whenever I release the clutch, especially in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears. A mate suggested replacing the shock and bushings, which has led to me planning the full refurbishment.

 

There are a couple of wheels that have caught my eye, namely the Venturo's (Sulio's wheels), a staggered set of Hyper Black Rota RB-Rs in 17x8.5rear and 17x(~7) fronts or a set of sportsmax rims, unsure of size. I'll make the decision when I can afford them I guess. The Rota's cost a bit more than the sports maxs but look a bit better IMO. The Venturo's look amazing but will cost around 2.2K for a set, over double the cost of the other two.  :o

 

As for the brakes, I haven't researched them too much yet and will need to trawl through the brakes section to find something appropriate for my 'slightly sportier than stock street car' build.

 

I don't know about you guys, but writing up what I plan to do helps me motivate myself and remain focused on a goal. Writing it where people can read and comment achieves the same thing but much more potently. It will also be cool to read my old posts and know that I achieved my goals. Anyway, that's my plan and I would love to hear anyone's thoughts or comments.  ;D

 

Thanks for reading, I'll update when I've got more time to procrastinate with.  :)

 

Steve

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yeah nice plans steve,

 

will need some good coin to get all that done its goin to cost me around 5k to do all that

 

2k on all that suspension gear and more

 

easy another 1-2k for brakes depends on how you go u can get away with cheap but will spend the cash later on something better.

 

wheels if you buy the rota rbs you spend say $1100 plus $1k for tyres your close to 6k

 

wheels can wait thou but suspension and brakes should be first on the todo list.

 

safety first then go for looks.

 

ohh and start to think of your car like a money box cause you will just keep putting cash into it lol

i know i am lol

 

peter

 

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I've been meaning to buy this book.

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Books/Nonfiction/Transport/Cars/auction-171857026.htm

 

How to Hot Rod and Race your Datsun 510 / 240z.

 

Seems like a great book for suspension mods etc.. A little outdated now but the principles are probably just the same.

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That book looks like a good read Gav, I'll definitely grab it next time I see it. I also wanted to ask you about King Springs.

 

Originally posted by gav240z in http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,353.0.html

 

I have King Springs in my car but it's a very harsh ride not good for city driving really. Country roads no worries heaps of fun in the hills. I'm asking for some opinions on the progressive rate springs that are designed to suit the Tokico Illuminas I think they would work alot better on the street.

 

I know that it was 2006 when you posted that, and I'm wondering what you ended up doing? I intend to get King Springs for my Z but after reading what you said I thought I had better talk to you about it. Did you change the spring rate?

 

Ok, now to create my price list. Many of these are from the Fulcrum Suspension quotes in this thread: http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,2672.0.html

 

1. New outer tie rod ends - Set on ebay for $80

 

2. New ball joints - $80 AUD shipped from US

 

3. Polyurethane bushings -

 

poly bushes strutbar to chassis $34

poly bushes lower crtl arm inner $45

poly bushes diff to x-member $52.35

poly bushes front swaybar to chassis $18

poly bushes rear swaybar to chassis $18

Total  $167.35

 

4. Repack/tighten front wheel bearings - Unsure of price

 

5. Replace rear wheel bearings if needed - Unsure of price

 

6. Front Swaybar - Adjustable $248 or Non adjustable $182

 

7. Rear Swaybar - Adjustable $256

 

8. Lowering springs - King Springs $264 for front and back

 

9. Aftermarket shocks - Kybs $503 for front and back or Konis $1102 for front and back.

 

10. Bumpsteer spacers $69US from MSA or ~$100 AUD shipped here

 

For the items listed and with Koni shocks the price is ~$2027.35

 

With KYB Shocks the total price is ~$1427.35.

 

Now what I need to figure out is whether the Fulcrum Suspension items are the same prices for lowered suspension. I've read through and heard many forum members recommend Konis as some of the best shocks in the world, which is a huge call. If they truly are noticeably better than the competition then I am perfectly happy spending the money on them.

 

Still reading through and learning, very open to advice  ;)

 

Edit: If I was to buy every bit that I needed, drive my car to a workshop (need to find a good suspension place in Bris, maybe Fulcrum?) and ask them to install it for me what kind of labor costs would I be looking at? ~$500? ~$1000? Rough estimate is all I'm looking for. There is very little I'll be able to do myself on this, and I don't really have anyone to ask for help, so I'll have to get it done professionally.

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Well mrp69, looks like you were spot on about the suspension costs  ;D

 

I've emailed Fulcrum and am awaiting a reply with a quote on prices for installation and the other things like tie rod ends that don't have prices listed.

 

I can't decide whether its worth going for adjustable sway bars in a street car, its not like I'll be adjusting for understeer and oversteer often.

 

Oh and a side note, my Z is running at approx 15L/100km with the stock L26 and hitachi carbs, I think it might be running a little rich  :o

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I've been meaning to buy this book.

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Books/Nonfiction/Transport/Cars/auction-171857026.htm

 

How to Hot Rod and Race your Datsun 510 / 240z.

 

Seems like a great book for suspension mods etc.. A little outdated now but the principles are probably just the same.

If you want to get this book new I got a copy from there guys here in NZ - good to deal with (purchased a few books from them before hand too) - they will ship to Oz too - just shoot them an email - on their website.

http://www.manuals.co.nz/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=8818&keyword=datsun&searchby=title&offset=20&fs=1&CLSN_728=1220429807728cb13e9df69f3170842f

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Steve, your posting a heck of a lot of information & asking even broader questions.

Perhaps condence your questions down to make them simpler for us to answer - maybe point form? ;)

 

Sorry about that, I know it's frustrating for you guys to read my posts.  :(

 

I thought that maybe posting up my thought processes will help anyone in the future that is looking to do a similar upgrade on their Z. Suspension questions are answered with 'how long is a piece of string' and I think the only way to compare the different levels and types are to have a good idea of what a person is looking to achieve. I've ranted about what I want enough in my previous posts so I'll be more conservative from now on.

 

Here are the questions that I asked oh so ambiguously:         

 


  •  
  • Will the Koni Reds and King springs that I buy from Fulcrum be suitable for lowering my car?
  • Can anyone that has lowered their Z tell me what spring rates / shock settings they used? Keeping in mind this is for my daily driver. I know the ride will be bumpier.
  • How far have others lowered their Zs? Do you bottom out often/ever? (this is a big fear of mine)
  • Will I notice the difference between Koni's and KYB shocks in a street car?
  • Will I notice the difference between adjustable and non adjustable swaybars in a street car?
     
     

 

Steve

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I had all urethane bushes put through the front of my car, along with koni red's and low king springs. I have read that some people put urethane bushes on the horizontal joints, and rubber on the vertical. on a daily driven car this makes sense to me, as you definitively feel alot through the steering with it all urethane, but its not overly annoying or anything.

 

The koni's can be set to different levels, although the strut has to be removed from the car for this to be done. Mine were put in by Toperformance, who rally a 240z and i was very happy with the settings they put them on (can't remember off the top of my head). I just have the standard sway bars, and all in all this set up works fine for a daily driven zed.

 

it has just over 100mm of clearance at the front, but the back didn't really lower much at all, i assume because the previous spings sagged so much. so the only thing that really needs to be done now for me to be happy with it as a daily is to have the front strut tops put in the back to lower it that extra inch of so, as per lurch's write up.

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1 Yes they will. The kings springs lower your car around 30mm. This will be quite suitable for your intended application & will firmin your ride slightly.

The Koni Reds are the single acting, one way adjustable damper & are excellent in road cars.

Cheap bastards option: if you have the original factory oil inserts, you can drain the oil out & replace it with heavier fork oil or ATF – works VERY well!

 

2 I lowered my bus with the lowered Kings springs – I am not sure what the rate is but the coil wire was 0.5 thicker than standard.

Perhaps speak to a Kings tech to clarify the rate. I highly doubt the ride quality will degrade much.

 

3 I only bottom out when I inadvertently drive through pot holes. You'd have to lower your Zed a loooooooong way for it to bottom out over normal tarmac surfaces.

 

4 In a road car? I doubt it. Koni (IMHO) is the superior brand but it all comes down to personal preference & depth of wallet.

 

5 Adjustable swaybars in a road car isn't necessary, they are only usefull for tuning your suspension for track use.

Non-adjustable bars, as long as they are uprated ones, will provide much more control over body roll than std ones without an increase in ride harshness.

 

Did that help Stevo?

 

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I've noticed a loud knocking sound from what I think is the rear right strut tower whenever I release the clutch, especially in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears. A mate suggested replacing the shock and bushings, which has led to me planning the full refurbishment.

 

Check your diff mount as they commonly break the rubber mount. I put a new one one some years ago an dlooped a chained though some rad hose to tension the diff down and avoid more diff mount failures.

 

Sulio

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Did that help Stevo?

 

 

It certainly did, thanks Lurch.  :)

 

Fulcrum replied to my email but they forgot to attach the quote, will post the amount tomorrow. They confirmed that the shocks are Koni red classics, and with the king springs lower the car about 40mm. They have also stated that it will take about 2-3 days to do, and as such I'm expecting a hefty labor cost. Also should note that some of the parts will take 4-6 weeks to be manufactured beforehand.

 

Check your diff mount as they commonly break the rubber mount. I put a new one one some years ago an dlooped a chained though some rad hose to tension the diff down and avoid more diff mount failures.

 

Sulio

 

Hey Sulio, thanks I'll have a look. To be honest I don't know what the diff mount looks like, but its attached to the diff and so should be easy enough to locate.

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Good write up on different types of brake options for the S30: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=104735&highlight=wilwood

 

Received quote, I can PM it if anyone wants a look. It's interesting that some of the bushings are listed as 1600 and 180B Datsun bits. I guess they are universal.

 

Total price on quote for everything on the list above: $2692

 

The labor cost (included in that total) is $450. Seems reasonable. I have to supply my own bump steer correction spacers for them to install. These cost around $100 to get from MSA. That brings total to $2792. I also need to correct on my order that I want the NON adjustable sway bars, so that will lower the price.

 

I decided to go with Koni's.

 

I want to get a couple other quotes, can anyone from Brisbane recommend a suspension place?

 

Edit: Would like to thank Lurch and Evan for helping me decide which route suits my needs.  ;D

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Steve, for what your looking at doing Fulcrum would be one of the best shops in Brisbane.

 

The only other place I would try would be Z Car Workshop in Underwood, Alan really knows his stuff having susccessfully built raced and rallied Zed's for years.

 

Matt

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Stevo go to the Browns Plains Fulcrum store, Ask for a bloke called Jimmy tell him Chicken said g'day,

 

He will give you a good discount and I can garantee he knows his stuff.

 

Taking your car to his shop will enable him to give me some feedback to put on the forum and more detailed technical information.

 

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,2672.0/topicseen.html I am sure you have read this post.

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How much are you looking at stevo?

 

I have just got my new yellow 240z back home, it come with a full bushing kit, tokico 5 way adjustable rears, and tokiko hp's front. also lowered king springs.

 

I am debating weather to pull the whole thing apart myself and powder coat all the components, or just take it to a suspension shop and get them to do it.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well I went to see Jimmy at Fulcrum in Hillcrest.

 

He was very friendly and confirmed that it was overdue time to get this suspension work done.

 

Now just to wait until I start working at the mines and earning the some real cash so I can afford the job.

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Very good. There is a few engineering jobs going with OZ MINERALS. Xstrata is a very good company to work for. Are you going coal or hard rock?

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