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Turbo L28 vs 3.1 Stroker L28


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#41 Enzo

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Posted 11 August 2006 - 04:32 PM

Hi Guys, I have to agree with RPMZ about the dyno's. They can be adjusted to give a higher reading. If you want your dyno to read higher then the other guys shop down the road you adjust it so it looks like your a whizz tuner. Dyno's are great for before and after comparisons or for checking fuel /air mixtures under load. Once you do your tuning adjustments the vehicle should be tested under the conditions you would be normally using it for. EG: road or track. Just my opinion. Have a nice day. David.

#42 NZeder

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Posted 11 August 2006 - 08:32 PM

NZeder .........sounds like a really nice engine you are building, especially being EFI. What computer will you be running.
I mentioned fuel consumption as I know a few people in the Zed community here like using their cars on daily basis. I personally don?t, as I wouldn?t want to be stuck in traffic on the way to work and back, however not everyone has the luxury to have 2 cars.


Yep I know what you mean re stuck in traffic - I lived in Melbourne for 2 years now back in Auckland, NZ and Melbourne traffic is great it moves at least - One winter it took me 4.5 hours to get home from work (through the single motorway that Auckland has) and my total trip is 65km's so that was 14.4 km/h (still quicker than I could run :lol:) + my zed has been of the road for 10 years getting its rebuild (as stated move to Oz, then back, built a new house, had a kid, got another on the way..yada yada). But good things take time :)

Re the computer - I am have a play with a Megasquirt :) I will be running either coil on plug or the six coils wired in a wasted spark config. So the megasquirt will be modified for 6 coil drivers non the less - just a question on the number of output I want to use. If I go COP I need to use 6 outputs which means I have to give up the knock sensor input (current software has knock input on the same as Spark F output)

So my question for those in the know - would an engine with the following specs need a knock sensor.

3014cc L28 with 90mm bore, 10.5 CR, EFI, Balanced crank, rods, 44mm intake valves, 38mm exhaust, .480-----270 degrees cam (not 100% leave that to the head builder - it will be custom to suit the engine)

So if I don't need a knock sensor I could do the COP thing. But as stated I will be running 6 coils either way.

#43 Zeddophile

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 03:05 PM

personally I'd run a knock sensor on any tuned vehicle, regardless of setup.

However, if you are tuning it on a dyno, with someone who has equipment to detect knock, and don't plan on fiddling with the tune after its been set, you probably could go without, if its tuned properly (IE. Safely.) and if fuel in New Zealand is consistent octane rating all the time.

However, for mine the safety net of a properly setup knock sensor is probably much more valuable.

#44 NZeder

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 08:43 PM

personally I'd run a knock sensor on any tuned vehicle, regardless of setup.

However, if you are tuning it on a dyno, with someone who has equipment to detect knock, and don't plan on fiddling with the tune after its been set, you probably could go without, if its tuned properly (IE. Safely.) and if fuel in New Zealand is consistent octane rating all the time.

However, for mine the safety net of a properly setup knock sensor is probably much more valuable.


Yes that is were my head is at also - go the knock and just have the 6 coils in wasted spark setup using only 3 outputs :)

#45 thehelix112

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Posted 13 August 2006 - 06:58 AM

http://www.ozdat.com...opic.php?t=7489

DIY manual knock sensors, for the set-and-forget. Thats what I have done. The headphones are amazing, you can hear the valves opening and closing and ANY detonation straight away.

Electronic knock sensors are of relatively limited value I believe, though at the same time I am sure they are evolving and improving all the time. By the time the sensor is sure its detonation you could have a broken engine, esp on a highly-stressed race engine.

I'd say tune it safe, use good fuel, and forget about it.

Dave

#46 DelWalken

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Posted 04 May 2007 - 12:39 PM

Check this link.

http://zhome.com/rnt...nveyProject.htm

#47 Hunter

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 05:43 AM

Exuse my ignorance, But how do you get 3.1L in a 'L' series motor? What crank or bore size are we using?

I have a Fuel Injected L28ET with P90 head. I am not sure what the block is I will have to check.

#48 NZeder

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 06:18 AM

Take the bore out to 89mm (3mm over) then get hold of a LD28 (Diesel engine - came in the Laurel's that are imported here in NZ not sure about OZ, we get them for between $50-150 for a crank only or sometimes the whole car for $100-200 which include a long nose R200)

The LD28 crank is 83mm vs the L28/L26 79mm. Using L24/L16 or L20a (pre 79) rods (all these rods are the same if the later L24/L16 units are used which have the 9mm big end bolt vs the earlier 8mm) I believe it best to use a good custom piston not the KA24 pistons as these are heavy and have large rings not ideal for performance IMHO.

You can get larger I have build L28 block with 90mm bore and owned one with 90mm with the LD28 crank = 3.2L now if you were to take a LD28 offset grind to change the stroke some more maybe 85mm then a 3.3L could be possible but at the 90mm bore the walls are getting thin

Hope this helps.

#49 tbscobraZ

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 10:30 AM

It really does come down to peronal perfence from all I have seen and the biggest deciding factor is; 1. Do you want a nostalgic car or 2. A tuner car. For a nostalgic car i belive a stroker would be best. For a tuner car put in a RB engine and let loose. That leaves the turbo plenty of power, plenty or money [insurance parts]. Me myself i eventually money permitting, i want to build a twin turbo stroker bit out there and its a going to take time but awesome fun when finshied.

#50 Ricky

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Posted 15 June 2008 - 04:54 PM

Hi All,
I don't have any experience on turbo L28 setups but I did build an stroker for my 240Z last winter and thought I would share what I have learnt and where I am with it now. There are many stories about strokers failing and this is mainly due to the use of pistons from other Nissan motors that really aren't suited. A custom piston with be forged, half the weight and have thin rings which is what you want. I had  JE make a set of 87.5mm custom pistons which I attached to a set of highly prepped L24 rods that were bushed to allow the pins to float. All rotating parts must be balanced as they have all come from other engines and must now work together.

As the engine is now 3 liter you need to do some serous head work, large exhaust valves and porting to get the gas flow up. The intake side is not as important but still should be cleaned up. To get the valves to open long enough to get the mixture in and out I used a cam with 535 thou lift and adjustable cam gear.

I used Mikuni 44's with 39 chokes and a custom 1 3/4 header which is split until it gets to the dif then joins into a single 3" pipe. This combo makes 335hp at the flywheel and 286 at the rear wheels and is very streetable. Off the cam its got torque and when it gets to 3000 it pulls hard to 7000 where its all over. It should rev higher but with 44's I cant get enough air into the engine.

One problem I found very early on is the uprated clutches sold don't last long and are to heavy causing nasty harmonics in the engine. I now use a flexplate type setup with a steel button in the middle with a 71/4 twin plate clutch and what a smooth engine it makes. Over the winter I am hoping to find a few more hp by doing more head work and fitting some larger carb's.

I have to admit I didn't build the engine myself I worked with an engine builder and my original budjet was 5K and I spent over 10K before I was running.

Ricky

#51 BenZed

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 01:38 PM

Take the bore out to 89mm (3mm over) then get hold of a LD28 (Diesel engine - came in the Laurel's that are imported here in NZ not sure about OZ, we get them for between $50-150 for a crank only or sometimes the whole car for $100-200 which include a long nose R200)

The LD28 crank is 83mm vs the L28/L26 79mm. Using L24/L16 or L20a (pre 79) rods (all these rods are the same if the later L24/L16 units are used which have the 9mm big end bolt vs the earlier 8mm) I believe it best to use a good custom piston not the KA24 pistons as these are heavy and have large rings not ideal for performance IMHO.

You can get larger I have build L28 block with 90mm bore and owned one with 90mm with the LD28 crank = 3.2L now if you were to take a LD28 offset grind to change the stroke some more maybe 85mm then a 3.3L could be possible but at the 90mm bore the walls are getting thin

Hope this helps.


Yes at 90mm the walls are very thin. I had to look at a lot of blocks to find one that could take this bore safely. My L-series has the 83mm LD crank and 90mm bore for 3166cc capacity. At 89mm it would be 3096cc. Kameari actually make an 85mm stroker crank, which gives 3171cc on an 89mm bore, but requires a 2.5mm head gasket. The other drawback is it costs $4000 in Japan (plus duty, shipping GST etc.)
I've owned a turbo L28 too and they produce great midrange torque, but I chose atmo this time around for the sound, the instant throttle response and the ever-climbing power delivery. The 3.1 delivers as much torque as you could ever need and adds the searing top end sound and power. Ultimately you can get much more power from a turbo engine, but the character of an atmo engine just seems right for a classic sports car.

#52 BenZed

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 01:53 PM


One problem I found very early on is the uprated clutches sold don't last long and are to heavy causing nasty harmonics in the engine. I now use a flexplate type setup with a steel button in the middle with a 71/4 twin plate clutch and what a smooth engine it makes.

Ricky


OS Giken make a twin-plate for the L-series with clutch plate dampers and a light chrome-moly flywheel called a TS2BD. The plates are 204mm. It is rated for 480hp and I find it quite streetable. I had my engine balanced with this clutch attached for the best result. The Australian retail for the clutch is $2150 with the bearing and shorter carrier included. Anyone interested can PM me. For crazy power a triple-plate is available too.




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