Jump to content


Photo

Turbo L28 vs 3.1 Stroker L28


  • Please log in to reply
51 replies to this topic

#21 thehelix112

thehelix112

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 167 posts
  • Location:Ballarat, Victoria.

Posted 20 May 2005 - 01:54 AM

Yeah thats where the battery was. Now in boot (obviously).

I never really asked Rollo why he put the turbo there, I just liked it because it gets it out from directly under my intake manifold - and NICE and close to the passengers brake line. :S

280zx CVs are unlikely to be up to the job for anything more than a little while. They are the tripod style CV vs the Z31 6-ball type (or so I've been lead to believe). Methinks customs for me. :(

Someone convince Jack to gimme his RB25DET gearbox->L28 bell housing. :D

Dave

#22 Toecutter

Toecutter

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,272 posts
  • Location:Kensington, Victoria

Posted 21 May 2005 - 09:50 AM

Just a thought in regards to the thread heading. It seems to be a very popular topic and seeing we have a stroker and turbo in viczar ie Costa and Dave, would'nt it be good to do an artical in featured cars on your cars fellas. It would be cool to put them both on a dyno and get some comparisons on power/torque distribution and maybe even 1/4 mile times if you guys were interested that is!?
I think it would make for a great read and get more traffic throught the site!?????

Cheers
Sulio

#23 thehelix112

thehelix112

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 167 posts
  • Location:Ballarat, Victoria.

Posted 21 May 2005 - 10:32 AM

My car looks like a sack of poo, and is running standard gearbox and diff, and now I'm making excuses - but of course I'm up for it. :)

Dave

#24 Toecutter

Toecutter

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,272 posts
  • Location:Kensington, Victoria

Posted 21 May 2005 - 11:06 PM

Well I suppose the focus would be on the motor anyways so the fact that your car isn't cosmetically finished is'nt that important. :)

#25 thehelix112

thehelix112

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 167 posts
  • Location:Ballarat, Victoria.

Posted 24 May 2005 - 03:18 PM

Good point. My point was that it shouldn't be overly surprising if my car spits something. :D

Dave

#26 Toecutter

Toecutter

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,272 posts
  • Location:Kensington, Victoria

Posted 24 May 2005 - 09:42 PM

hmmm...maybe later on in that case! :)

#27 thehelix112

thehelix112

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 167 posts
  • Location:Ballarat, Victoria.

Posted 25 May 2005 - 02:03 PM

Nah lets do it sooner rather than later. The gearbox front bearing is starting to make some noise and it'll be a while until the RB25 box goes in. Care to make a date and I'll get my 20psi tune done. :)

Dave

#28 Toecutter

Toecutter

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,272 posts
  • Location:Kensington, Victoria

Posted 26 May 2005 - 10:21 PM

Cool, I'll talk to Costa and be in touch soon.

#29 thehelix112

thehelix112

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 167 posts
  • Location:Ballarat, Victoria.

Posted 17 June 2005 - 04:27 PM

Too late. I put a 3" unmuffled (track only of course) system on and went to do some tuning yesterday. Went to boost it in 3rd, and I now have a broken box. How sad.

I'm going to look at an RB30 5-speed adapted to L28 bell housing as a temporary measure.

Dave

#30 NZeder

NZeder

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,291 posts
  • Location:Auckland, NZ

Posted 17 June 2005 - 06:04 PM

Natez - just a question for you - if you want your Zed to be a corner to corner car then the RB is not a good option (this is my opinion only). My reason for this is that the RB is a heavier engine = the Zed 52/48 balance will be changed = a lot more suspension work required to get a good corner to corner car again.

Again not a flaming just my opinion (+ I am old school all the way - showing my age now - just love the L Series it was what the car was designed around) If $$ was no object I am sure you would do the same as most of us find and install the S20 that was found in the 432zeds and the KPGC10 and KPGC110 aka early skyline GTRs.

Cheers
Mike

#31 zr240

zr240

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 721 posts
  • Location:Melbourne

Posted 01 July 2006 - 07:16 PM

I cannot beleve that you guys think a stroker is so good!

what do you mean a L28T has the same power as a stroker l28? do you meen a std turbo l28 vs a stroker as thats not a real fair comparison.

Also Gav how much power do you really expect to get from your stroker?

I respect the fact you want a motor thats a bit different to the norm but I dont think its better than std l28 that has been built properly little own a turbo motor!

Sorry to be a prick but I just cant stand the rubbish about strokers being so good any longer :x

Also just as a final point the 2 quickest Zed cars around Phillip Island (I take this as a good mesure of cars allround) are both l28 that have been boared out a little (prob about 2.9L). Ans there have been two other race built zeds with strokers who couldn't touch them! (built by zshop)

So I have had my whine now so I will shut up!

By the way Sulio I wouldnt mind being in on the dyno test with my car when it done then we would have L28 L28T and L3.1(stroker)

I am happy to discuss this and qualify any of my points but I am not trying to pick a fight.

Ash

#32 Toecutter

Toecutter

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,272 posts
  • Location:Kensington, Victoria

Posted 01 July 2006 - 08:12 PM

hi Ash, this is an old one that dissapeared off the radar as Costa has!
As far as dyno days go I would like to organise something once I get a chance to finish the mild L28 I would like to get into one of these days but with the new house thats dropped off on the list of priorities for a little while. Where's your car at mate?

#33 zr240

zr240

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 721 posts
  • Location:Melbourne

Posted 01 July 2006 - 09:03 PM

That will teach me for looking at old posts and not reading when then were posted :roll:

showed up as a new post when I logged?

Cars going well thanks. Hows the house going?

Just got my RB25 for my other zed today. Nothing like starting a new project half way through another.

Ash

#34 Toecutter

Toecutter

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,272 posts
  • Location:Kensington, Victoria

Posted 01 July 2006 - 09:10 PM

House is going well, like the Z always something to do.

Ah your RB25, you going to put carbs on it? Go for that 432 twin cam sound and look?

Sulio

#35 zr240

zr240

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 721 posts
  • Location:Melbourne

Posted 02 July 2006 - 09:04 AM

Yer I picked up a set of triple solexs for it.

Should be interesting to see how it turns out?

Ash

#36 thehelix112

thehelix112

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 167 posts
  • Location:Ballarat, Victoria.

Posted 27 July 2006 - 10:22 AM

The yanks have the right way to go, both. :) Stroker and turbo.

Dave

#37 Lurch ™

Lurch ™

    Curator of the 'Gavin Collection'

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,607 posts
  • Location:Victoria
  • Tagline:In my Den of Rust & Sin

Posted 27 July 2006 - 09:28 PM

Just got my RB25 for my other zed today. Nothing like starting a new project half way through another.

Ash

:twisted:

#38 RPMZ

RPMZ

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 18 posts
  • Website:http://www.240zturbo.com
  • Location:Melbourne

Posted 10 August 2006 - 02:44 PM

I think I might be a good person to respond to this topic as I have had both engines in my car. Well I had a 3L L28, which wasn?t stroked, but bored out a lot to Just over 3L, revved nicely to 8000rpm, and currently I have an L28 Turbo injected.

Here are quick specs of both motors.

3L. L28????F54 block, P90 head, forged pistons, comp vale springs, 76* cam, 10.5 ? 11:1 comp ratio, ported head, Twin SUs setup correctly.
L28 Turbo ???GTR pistons, low comp 7:3 to 1, turbo custom cam, custom exhaust manifold, GT30 turbo, Autronic SMC etc.etc.

BTW?? the person who ended up buying my 3L motor raced in some class in QLD for 4 years finishing each season in top 5.

The 3L made about 103rwkw with SUs, can?t remember at what RPM, with webbers 45mm which I got later would?ve made about 130rwkw I think.
It drove very nicely even with 76* cam, as it did have 3L to help. The cam really came in hard at 4000rpm but it was still very flexible and drivable below 4000rpm as well.
The car made the best induction noise that I ever heard from a 6 cylinder. It also would spit out fumes of up to 3-4 meters as it was lumpy, and very noisy.
It made fantastic raw old school noise. I raced a 240z L24 Turbo, T28, old motec ecu ???? and I just beat the car. The other car was making 102rwkw.

However with SUs and 76* cam the motor wouldn?t idle below 1300rpm, it would get about 18-20L of fuel per 100kms taking it easy. With webbers around the city fuel consumption would be much worst.

The current L28 turbo makes 220rwkw (on Racepace dyno) at around 5500rpm, redlines at 6700rpm and it makes over 200rwkw from 4000rpm.
It is much more quite than 3L, just little more driveable down low below 3000rpm, most likely due to EFI. The car makes heaps of torque as it went through 3 gear boxes in 12 months (FJ20 modified box, L28 box, 1 mixed box of parts)
All 3 boxes had 3rd gear stripped when flat sticked rolling in 3rd gear (torque gear) Now I finally got the RB25det box in, no problems since. The turbo motor is far easier to live with on daily basis and fuel consumption is great. It?s about 11.5 to 12L per 100kms, and that?s not just cruising.
The car still makes that lumpy NA L28 motor sound, but once on boost the turbo makes a bit of induction noise.

I?d never go back to a NA motor again, unless it was for historic racing or some hardcore restore job.

However it all comes town to $$$. The Turbo motor makes more than double the power of the 3L in my case, however it would cost twice as much to build. Plus on top of that if you wish to push more than 200rwkw you will need a better g.box with a new tail shaft, put in CV shafts, get a good LSD in an lower ratio ie. 3.5 or 3.7, modify fuel lines, add electric fuel pump or pumps, surge tank recommended, Once you?ve done all that you need to upgrade your brakes to get engineers certificate (another $500)

3L is better option if you are on a smaller budget or want to maintain old school look and feel etc. However if it will be carburettors (webbers or similar) you won?t want to use it on daily basis as fuel consumption will kill you. To build EFI 3L stroker with throttle bodies cost nearly as much as a turbo motor.
Once you built your 3L stroker, you?ll proudly be cruising down the street and you?ll have a P plater rock up in a 15 year old Silvia with a T28 on it that he got for $1200, kick you?re a$$ sounding like a law mower with an oversized exhaust, you might rethink you engine 

P.S. I do have a friend whom has an old silvia with T28 that did 12.4@109mpg (on slicks)

The best value for money is a RB30 turbo motor as you can keep fairly stock and still get good power out of it. It?s relatively easy to install, cheap and easily available. Stock-ish motor will easily make 200rwkw with a few bits and make loads of torque.

If you feel brave and want the smoothness of a twin cam motor go RB25 which standard bottom end should be good for about 245rwkw, but will need bigger turbo. Stock turbo is good for 190rwkw max. If you feel even braver and you just sold a kidney, go for RB26 which with stock turbos will make up to 255rwkw on 15psi, but you will need cam gears and good exhaust.

I was lucky enough to get a RB26 from a friend for dirt cheap price (no turbos) going single turbo anyway, so 1 day when I get my sh!t together and put it in, I?ll be able to do the compare of the 3 motors lol 

BTW ??.Gav when I took you for a spin last time, car had the old crap laggy turbo with 190rwkw, new GT30 is so much better.

P.S. I am happy to do a dyno or 1/4mile compare vs a 3L stroker??.. Quarter mile I?ve done 12.12@117.5mph on pulp fuel street 18? tyres. What?s the best time for a 3.1L stroker and with what diff ratio? I?m sure ?thehelix112? will be happy to help too ;) He has a nice GT35R on his car.
P.S.2 This strictly for scientific and education purposes only ;)


OMG ?? this report felt like doing home work???.. lol

#39 NZeder

NZeder

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,291 posts
  • Location:Auckland, NZ

Posted 11 August 2006 - 07:21 AM

Great reply RPMZ :)

I am building a 3014cc non stroked L28 ie 4mm overbore = 90mm bore :shock: I will be running triple throttle bodies so it should be a bit more street able.

It is funny how different cars do different 1/4 times there was a racing zed here in NZ, now fitted with a 350 V8 (circuit track) that went down the 1/4 on one of the clubs drag days. Its time was 13.1 @ 105MPH now here is the good bit the engine setup.

Stock L28 bottom end balanced and the usual race pre work
Stock L28 dish pistons (yep dished pistons stock 86mm sizing)
Head E88 from 260c (the 4 door sedan) modified so with the dish pistons 10:1 CR - I think the cc were 34 with stock L28 valves MSA stage III cam.
Modified mikuni 44PHH (modified in Japan)
R200 3.9 Locked diff
CV setup and 6 pots brakes on the front and 2 pots on the rear.
Made 150rwkw with 7800RPM rev limit

I know these claims about the engine to be true as I helped (goffer) assemble/install this engine in the car.

I am very surprised your 3L only put down 103rwkw - I have seen a few stock sized L28 put down 130rwkw here (again balanced and head work but still 86mm bore and triples)

Re the fuel consumption thing - care factor: It is a sports car after all if we were concerned about fuel consumption we would not be playing with zed cars but this would be an electric car forum or alt fuel forum :lol:

Will be great to get your feedback on the RB engine install one day :)

#40 RPMZ

RPMZ

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 18 posts
  • Website:http://www.240zturbo.com
  • Location:Melbourne

Posted 11 August 2006 - 02:42 PM

NZeder .........sounds like a really nice engine you are building, especially being EFI. What computer will you be running.
I mentioned fuel consumption as I know a few people in the Zed community here like using their cars on daily basis. I personally don?t, as I wouldn?t want to be stuck in traffic on the way to work and back, however not everyone has the luxury to have 2 cars.

The 103rwkw doesn?t sound like much, but it comes down to who?s dyno you use. I saw an race build L28 with triple Webbers, 74* cam make only 102rwkw, so in my opinion dynos are for tuning and if people want to compare figures, they should comparing their ? mile slips and what MPH each car is doing, that way you get a better idea how much balls the car has. The times might be all different due to tyres, suspension, traction etc. but MPH should be consistent.

With 103rwkw I still think car would?ve done high 13 second pass as it had 4.11 LSD, therefore the ratios were rather close, plud I did race a car that did 13.9, and I was tiny bit quicker.

With 150rwkw you should be doing low 13s with around 105mhp?????? let us know how you go ;)




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users