New E85 Ethanol Fuel, Opinions?
Posted 01 July 2008 - 02:34 PM
What do you guys think about that?
Here is the wiki for E85 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85
Posted 01 July 2008 - 02:59 PM
Stainless steel (the good stuff) for the fuel line, petrol tank, if EFI then special injectors, and if carbs then maybe custom/special jets etc.
Drag cars and race cars that run 100% Ethanol have such fuel systems and this is usually controlled via the class rules ie Ethanol permitted to be used = team go to the expense etc.
see http://en.wikipedia....ki/Alcohol_fuel about 1/2 down the Methanol/Ethanol secion is the info about corrosion.
Posted 01 July 2008 - 03:09 PM
Now I stick to the 98 RON BP stuff.
Posted 01 July 2008 - 05:06 PM
the higher the octane doesnt mean you have more "lubrication" (lead in the old days)...for a stockish-mild motor I run 92 octane with a squirt of lead replacement as opposed to "octane booster"...runs perfect.
If your motor is worked (& head modified accordingly) and your doing lap times like a fair few of the guys , then 95-98 would do the trick.
Posted 01 July 2008 - 07:43 PM
When retuned for the 100 octane fuel my power went from 280kW atw to 310kW.
And the corrosion is not caused by ethanol but methanol which is used in many categories of drag racing.
Posted 01 July 2008 - 07:52 PM
Let me rephrase the corrosion issue, what I meant to say is a small percentage of ethanol
in petrol has no long term effects, but works really well in surpressing detonation allowing more timing and boost to be used.
Posted 02 September 2010 - 10:08 AM
Has anyone else tuned their car to run on E85?
Posted 02 September 2010 - 11:08 AM
Posted 02 September 2010 - 01:12 PM
I use 98, but will be doing the exercise on costing proper race fuel, Elf or equivalent, for how much km I would do in a year of racing and track days, and buying in the small amounts I would need at any one time. Looking at the cost difference and the convienience of 98, I think I will sacrifice the exta power I would get, for where I race improveing the handling and braking would be of a more cost effective benfit to me.
Posted 02 September 2010 - 01:23 PM
Posted 02 September 2010 - 01:52 PM
"Soft metals such as zinc, brass or aluminum, which are commonly found in conventional fuel storage and dispensing systems are not compatible with E85."- http://www.in.gov/id.../la-072-gg.pdf/
"Corrosion: because the alcohol in ethanol corrodes aluminum, FFV components are made of stainless steel and E85 pumps must be modified or manufactured with stainless steel to prevent corrosion."- /
"there are only four acceptable metals to use, namely silver, copper, treated brass, and stainless steel."-http://gillesenergies.webs.com/buildyourownstill.htm/
Good luck hope this helps.
Posted 02 September 2010 - 02:14 PM
I've seen quite a few discussions on the myth of corrosion, I call it a myth, because I've read too many discussions, where someone has changed to E85, without chaning anything in thier fuel system and not had one bit of problems. Aluminum fuel rails, rubber hose, etc, all stood up fine.
The fuel sold around here all contains "up to" 10% ethanol, especially in winter, and has been sold that way for many years. I haven't seen or experianced any issues with the lower percentage of ethanol fuels.
Posted 02 September 2010 - 05:56 PM
Posted 02 September 2010 - 06:02 PM
Posted 02 September 2010 - 07:11 PM
Posted 02 September 2010 - 07:38 PM
Posted 27 October 2012 - 01:26 PM
I have been trying to get as much info lately and find someone with the knowledge to tune as I can, with very little success on the net. I have an L series in my race only Datsun running Webers with very high comp. and want to run on either 100 oct fuel (98 + 10% eth) this is easier to get or possibly E85. Engine has never ran on anything other than Avgas.
Can anyone recommend someone to speak to? Or any advice would be very appreciated.
The Dato has fuel cell, copper fuel lines and is already running rich for performance. FYI
Posted 27 October 2012 - 07:55 PM
The upsides are a much higher octane rating, which gives you the potential for more power and in the case of turbo cars, Simon and Dave at Nizpro have dyno verified that it gives you useable boost at lower RPM (up to 500rpm lower than on premium) due to the increased gas volume (because you burn a greater mass of it per unit air). They also consider it will give you 10 degrees more spark which is where a lot of additional power can also be achieved on turbo cars that become spark/boost limited using premium unleaded.
In the words of Dave at Nizpro regarding turbo cars "...I wouldn't run a car on anything but E85 in the Melbourne area where it's easy to get...it is just that much better". These guys are tuning cars on it everyday, so they have plenty of experience.
For those who don't understand how E85 works from a performance perspective, it's like this: Petrol has a stoichiometric ratio of 14.7:1. That is, you need 14.7lbs of air to burn 1lb of fuel. Ethanol is about half this, so more like 7:1. From a calorific point of view, petrol actually has more energy per lb than ethanol, but because of the lower stoich ratio, you can burn more pounds of it per unit air, hence get more power...the higher octane rating also helps power due to spark tolerance. When you add nitro methane to ethanol, the stoich ratio goes right down to about 4:1, and this is why top fuel dragsters burn 30 or so litres to cover the quarter mile...they are injecting a huge amount of fuel for the air that the engine uses, but this is the only way to produce such large amounts of power.
Bottom line: E85 is the highest performance potential fuel you can buy at the pump in this country, but you will have to make tuning and possibly component changes to get the benefits. You will also use more of it. E85 will be of no use (and may perform poorly) without retuning the engine. I have not heard of the corrosion problems driving component changes on conventional cars, but will check with the Nizpro chaps on this one....I do know they replaced the fibreglass tanks in their race boat with Stainless steel when they changed that engine over to E85.
Posted 28 October 2012 - 05:14 PM
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