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260Z Group Sc - Can A 2+2 Race?


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#1 mikmarda

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 09:38 AM

Hi guys,

 

Reading through the group Sc rules and car eligibility - the only mention of Datsuns are coupes... what about bus racing? Anyone doing it? Haven't seen any...

 

Cheers,

 

Mike M 



#2 hmd

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 09:46 AM

It's eligible, no one is running one as far as I know.

 

The bus is heavier than the 2 seater, may be a reason why


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#3 Groundhog

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 10:34 AM

Maybe of interest.

 

http://www.viczcar.c...-bathurst-1975/

 

https://en.wikipedia...(racing_driver)


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#4 andyk_79

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:19 AM

Hi guys,

 

Reading through the group Sc rules and car eligibility - the only mention of Datsuns are coupes... what about bus racing? Anyone doing it? Haven't seen any...

 

Cheers,

 

Mike M 

 

A 2+2 is still a coupe (it does not have rear passenger doors) so the fact that the rules only mention coupes does not exclude a 2+2


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#5 260DET

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 12:31 PM

The longer wheelbase may help around the more open circuits like Phillip Island.


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#6 Brabham

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 03:17 PM

2+2 is 150kg heavier than a coupe (2 seater). You need a '74 260Z 2 seater or a US 280Z to be competitive. Save your pennies and put them towards one of these if you want to run in Sc


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#7 mikmarda

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 04:46 PM

Very interesting -

I note that the cutoff is still 1972 though!!!

 

Noting that the original post was made in 2014 - I assume no change?



#8 dat2kman

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:04 PM

Very interesting -
I note that the cutoff is still 1972 though!!!
 
Noting that the original post was made in 2014 - I assume no change?

The Roxborough Group C 2+2 was done for Touring Car racing, it ket the rules, at the time.
You will need the very same car, not a replica, to use it for Hstoric Group C.

Group Sc -Production Sports, cut off date is December 1976
Interestingly, some cars are elegible for both Group S and Group N , ie certain body/model Porsche and Alfa Romeo, as these were used in early Appendix J Touring car racing, due to having a back seat and meeting certain particular interior dimension requirements.
As the 260Z 2+2 also has roven Touring car duty ( Group C) it could race as Historic Group N, BUT it requires a new sub-group introduced, Group Nd, for cars from 1972 to possibly 1979, this has been suggested, in order to introduce more cars, and entrants, to Group N, as, the very early class, Group Na, has very few entrants, and the cars are getting on, in years.
Same is occuring in Group Sa, the older pre 1960's Sports cars, which often, at Historic race meets, are placed with fields of similar vintage open wheelers. It looks odd, but from a safety perspective, it works.

#9 hmd

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 07:12 AM

https://www.cams.com...historic-groups

Sc

Group Sc is for non-turbo charged production sports cars generally manufactured and available in Australia between 1st January 1970 and 31st December 1977 with the inclusion of model run-ons.

 

You can get the 260Z specification pdf from here

 

https://www.cams.com.au/motor-sport/sport/historics/logbooks-and-cods/certificate-of-description-log-books/group-s-specifications



#10 Gordon Dobie

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 08:05 AM

Hi guys,
 
Reading through the group Sc rules and car eligibility - the only mention of Datsuns are coupes... what about bus racing? Anyone doing it? Haven't seen any...
 
Cheers,
 
Mike M



#11 Gordon Dobie

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 07:58 AM

The Datsun Racing Team 260 2+2 Bathurst car was excluded from the results due to insufficient leg room int the rear passenger area. This means they don't comply as a touring car. How Porsche got away with it is a bit of a mystery. In any event the Datsun is ineligible.
The 2+2 is heavy and too long in the wheel base. The best choice would be the 1975 280Z as sold in the USA and Japan. This was basically the 240 body with the 280ZX injected engine and being injected, under the rules at the time you could run any available injection system.
Two of my friends have recently imported race prepared 280Zs from the US and they should appear at historic events in the coming months.

Edited by Gordon Dobie, 02 November 2017 - 08:04 AM.


#12 hmd

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 08:34 AM

The 2+2 is heavy and too long in the wheel base. The best choice would be the 1975 280Z as sold in the USA and Japan. This was basically the 240 body with the 280ZX injected engine and being injected, under the rules at the time you could run any available injection system.
Two of my friends have recently imported race prepared 280Zs from the US and they should appear at historic events in the coming months.

 

Except in Group S you can't change the stock injection system. Jason's old car is a 280Z.



#13 dat2kman

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 09:37 AM

To run a 260, yes, there are more freedoms with the induction, but, you must retain the original carburretors.
With a 280Z, being injected, there are minor freedoms, to the internals of the induction system, but you must retain original intake manifold and rest of induction ( throttle body and airflow meter), same applies to any injected engine for GpS
It is not easy, or cheap, to get the Nissan setup to run better. The intake manifold is a crap airflow design at anything above 6000 rpm, but due to bigger bore size, the single butterfly throttle body can be made to flow very good cfm rates, with only minor work, same as what the front running Porsches have done.
Read the rule book, not just the specs sheets,,,,,,,

Have a look at the induction setup on James Flett's car, yes, it is Gp S compliant, and it works, but, that is just one part of a mechanical package, that works well.

#14 260DET

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 10:11 AM

It will be interesting to see what spec the two imports Gordon mentioned run and if they will be allowed to run as is. What's the deal with this?



#15 PZG302

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 11:35 AM

Depending on their competition history and when they ran they could run as Group T if before the cutoff date of around '79. If that is the case then they will be abe to run as Gordon said as long as they are running the injection systems they ran with during competition in the US.

 

As a Group S car doesn't matter what is done in the US they will have to be changed to meet the rules here.

 

Similar to Group N where genuine improved production cars like the Geoghan Mustang and Super Falcon don't comply with the Group N rules but run as "invited" cars.



#16 260DET

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 12:42 PM

So if they are Group T cars then they would usually be invited to SC, as long as the Porker mob don't object.



#17 dat2kman

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 09:47 PM

Hendersons car is a yet to be lobgbooked Group T car, but he has to show that, ts mechanical specification does comply with what it was back in the day.
Turns out the CAMS Elegibility bloke is now looking at all potential Group T cars, due to some people running out of period spec items, and have been logbooked for doing so.

To be a Group T car, it must be the real thing, not a dopycat replica, no matter how good it looks.
It's up to Event Directors/Promotors to slot the T's with the S cars.
The S brigade are still not happy, as a "non S car might win all their races"
Funnily, the category is known as Historic Production Sports Cars ( or Touring, but the Touring lads dont give a rats, if genuine cars run with them)

#18 Gordon Dobie

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 09:57 PM

One of the main reasons I retired from racing was due to the sport being run by a group of people who were, and still are, out of touch with the essence of the sport and this is no more so than in historic racing. The rules cars are forced to run under are entirely different to the rules which were applied when the cars were new. Who ever heard of racing cars being forced to use induction system supplied as standard equipment? Under the original rule induction was free. Unfortunately nothing has happened to change my view that " the sport is run by idiots"!
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#19 Brett240

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 05:58 PM

Mike there's a very quick 280Z two seater running this weekend at eastern creek if you want to get more info

 

a 2+2 would never really get to the front end of group S though if your just in it for fun it would be OK 



#20 dat2kman

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 09:57 PM

Where is the "Like" button!
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