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Will Zg Flares Devalue My 240?


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#21 wildy55

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 12:06 PM

....And green cars look terrible with flares, right?

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#22 d3c0y

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 12:19 PM

Why are you going to get defected for having flares? They aren't an illegal modification; you don't have to run 10" wide wheels with them. Also, as if a cop is going to know what is standard on a 40 year old 240Z. How many of you are running steering wheels with no horn pad. Uh-oh, defect! We better only run the standard steering wheels in case we upset mr plod or a collector.

 

When was the last time someone here even got a defect on their zed? The only thing I am worried about getting a defect for with my zed is being too low and that's because it will be low.

 

 

It's a bad idea. ..

So the 15x10 & 12.5" guards you say you are searching for in your sig are going to be fitted to a car with standard guards?

 

I find this recent negative attitude towards flares and a car's value in our circle odd, and I don't think it's shared in Japan. Even though they are factory option parts (The sports option catalog even lists 8" and 10" watanabes and flares) and the highest trim level available from the factory had them fitted as standard, they are viewed as defacing the car.

 

What is with this, please explain this to me haters? Is it because this is a stereotyping that any car with flares must automatically be drift bro, speedhunters, yolo spec?


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#23 d3c0y

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 12:20 PM

....And green cars look terrible with flares, right?

 

#ruined #worthless

 

1c05e9ea2c48b691c8718531c73a1f80.jpg


Edited by d3c0y, 19 December 2016 - 12:21 PM.

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#24 cracker

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 01:21 PM

#ruined #worthless

 

1c05e9ea2c48b691c8718531c73a1f80.jpg

 

Worthless? or just.. worth less?

 

Looks lovely though :)



#25 gav240z

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 01:47 PM

I like the flares, but won't be adding them to any of my cars unless I am building a replica of a HS30-H or an old Works Race Car etc..



#26 74zzz

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 02:32 PM

these will never be hard to sell and prices will continue to climb flared or unflared..... do what you want but if investment is what you are chasing and the arches are good don't cut them if you want flares and loosing a few buyers in the future doesn't matter go crazy..... there will always be a buyer you won't ever 'loose' money who cares about a future owners bud... it's yours right now...... it's not as if you are covering it in a fibreglass funboy bodykit.....its a period mod and how a lot were raced....... there is a market for concourse and a market for historic track look....

 

I had every intention of putting flares on mine but the longer I've owned it and after seeing how clean 'mossy's' orange beast looks ive changed my mind......


Edited by 74zzz, 19 December 2016 - 02:41 PM.

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#27 260DET

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 05:33 PM

Fitting flares is a fairly recent thing, ten or so years ago there were virtually none, in fact looking through old Z nationals pics there were stock Zeds or race Zeds and that's it. It's the same with engine changes, Zeds used to be Zeds and 99% of owners were reluctant to spend money on them at all but now we have owners rightfully considering resale. My how things have changed, for the better.



#28 d3c0y

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 09:45 PM

So I give you exhibit A and B, the car that started the price climb in Australia (in my opinion). Neither of the following cars were close to concourse standard of finish either. 

 

Ex Edward Lee's and now again in Phil's possession S30 Fairlady Z. Not only are the guards cut and flared, but a 260Z interior with an 3.1L Kameri L28 and other modifications. This car was one of the first to sell for "big money" in Aus at around the $35k mark around 4 years ago now. Since then there are several flared cars that have sold for as good or if not better money than a standard car in similar condition. 

 

Datsun-fairlady-15.jpg

 

The San Maru sister 240Z just sold - asking price $45k, I helped cut the guards off this one! L28 and mild cam, S2000 seats, coilovers, Z32 brakes etc and has some paint issues.

 

13717338_1127568137304816_10336305425521

 

My whole point is if you take a flared car vs a non-flared car in the same condition, i'm not seeing this massive drop, or it killing the value and they indeed selling. I'm not saying they sell for more, or that they are more popular or anything like that.
Also harking back to my previous point, they need to be done "right" and I think a lot of people see bad flare jobs and instantly think of those when they hear the term.


Edited by d3c0y, 19 December 2016 - 09:46 PM.


#29 gav240z

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 10:59 PM

I know of a few original cars that have sold for much more than the 2 examples above.

But like anything comparing 2 cars is difficult for a number of reasons. Restored vs unrestored. Original vs non original, modified vs stock, history vs no history, some cars look great in photos but present in person horribly...

Therefore I find Apples to Apples comparisons quite difficult.

There is not many truly original cars out there. Good original cars are commanding Premium prices. Not just here but globally.

#30 Rickers

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 07:19 AM

I guess you would be looking at a potentially smaller buyer range when a car has flares, as not everyone wants them whereas not having flares would open to both sides of the market (flares could be added).

If you want flares, go for it. If this project is something you're planning on keeping for a reasonable amount of time, or never letting go of like some of us, do what makes you happy, not what is going to make someone else happy when you're ready to let go. Flares can be reversed, although not easily, they still can be reveresed.

On the other hand, if it's a short term investment, I would definitely leave it up to the potential buyer to add the flares.

-Rickers
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#31 d3c0y

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 07:57 AM

I know of a few original cars that have sold for much more than the 2 examples above.

But like anything comparing 2 cars is difficult for a number of reasons. Restored vs unrestored. Original vs non original, modified vs stock, history vs no history, some cars look great in photos but present in person horribly...

Therefore I find Apples to Apples comparisons quite difficult.

There is not many truly original cars out there. Good original cars are commanding Premium prices. Not just here but globally.

 

I'm guessing you are putting cars like the BrownHornet among these, which at the end of the day was on a much higher level than these cars and I agree it's hard to make like comparisons. I bet those cars also sold after that Edward Lee's Fairlady Z did though. I would throw it out there, that flared cars are not generally restored to the same levels as the matching number concourse cars, due to the type of owners that each car attracts - users vs collectors. 

 

I also wasn't saying that pristine concourse examples won't sell for the most, which also reflects what I said that in my first post, that flares will affect the (potential) value of the car. This of course depends massively on what you are going to do with the rest of it, which I have already explained in detail what I meant there.

 

What I am refuting is the notion that fitting flares to a car will categorically "kill" it's value and make it undesirable, which is just flat out wrong and naive.

 

To the OP if you are still with us: Fit flares if you want, I don't think it will affect the value, as long as you don't do a shit job of it and you don't want to do a pristine mint concourse matching numbers car, which judging by your name and list of cars is not really your thing haha.

 



#32 260DET

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 08:00 AM

Agree with Gavin about the few truly original cars bringing premium prices, that's a fact and applies to pretty well to any car model that has collector interest. Also if a Z is going to be restored as far as possible to original specs then it would not make sense to flare it unless flares were OE for that particular model. The owners of such cars are usually not going to daily drive or use them for motorsport, there are always exceptions but as a general rule those cars are going to cruised and displayed.

 

On the other hand we have the performance car enthusiast who will be more interested in power, handling, braking and so on. The sensible ones, and the more expensive a car the more likely the owner will be sensible, are looking for something more than a standard car but done properly which looks good and goes well. In that market flares are almost a must and have the advantage of being an original factory option so being entirely acceptable period wise too.

 

Two different markets really.


Edited by 260DET, 20 December 2016 - 08:02 AM.


#33 74zzz

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:10 AM

Being real about the whole thing we are driving datsuns lads :) albeit appreciating ones, most are not matching numbers, original or nut an bolt restos :) the prices in australia are still not that much more or less than a new base model V8 commodore and they will never be $200,000 jobbies unless the individual car is something truly special been wrapped in a bubble or had a 100 grand resto........ so those that argue it will effect prices....you are talking a few grand not 40 or 50.........


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#34 gav240z

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:20 AM

They will never be $200,000 jobbies unless the individual car is something truly special been wrapped in a bubble or had a 100 grand resto........ so those that argue it will effect prices....you are talking a few grand not 40 or 50.........

 

Big call, I've seen it many times with vehicles being sold at Auctions, where small differences really make or break how much money a car will achieve. 40-50k may not be as unlikely as you think in a few years time.


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#35 74zzz

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:07 AM

Gav, the vehicles you tend to post fetching big dollars are time warp matching numbers cars, 432s or nut and bolt massive dollar restos.....I agree as a car gets older and therefore rarer, prices will climb, give that an extra boost of a beautiful shape, a boom in jap import scene and solid racing success  BUT there are still too many around to be worried about 'proper' investment potential.... yep mines doubled in price in 10 years, not a bad return but.....she aint ever gonna be a 2000gt or s20 engined hako/432. Don't get me wrong there is 'some' money to be made but not enough to worry about flares or not unless you got the coin to sit 10 restored examples in a shed for the next 20 years while they appreciate.......My old boy sold a fully restored BJ8 healey 40 years ago for $1200 they are only just hitting 100k now and have a fairly healthy world following..... I'll be 75 in 40 years time....i'll have my fun now and not worry about 2056 :) The only reason I am interested in the increasing prices is I can shut the missus down by saying " I can still sell it for more than i've spent on it" every time she complains when i buy new parts haha.   


Edited by 74zzz, 20 December 2016 - 11:13 AM.

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#36 GongZ

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 09:05 PM

The OP's (drifta1600's) signature is;

 

'13 -Datsun 1600s - 3 -260zs (1, 2 seater and 2, 2+2s) - 2 -240z (1 currently being restored) -280zx- r32,2xr33,r34 skylines, MY09 WRX - 200sx s14 - patrol swb- patrol lwb - d40 navara- 2012 kluger -exa turbo' !!!

 

I wonder if resale value on one car is really an issue for him? - just saying


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#37 d3c0y

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 09:02 AM

It is specifically the question he asked... so yeah i think it is.



#38 74zzz

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 09:03 AM

yep all cars of this vintage are appreciating.....When I bought my z I was also looking at XA coupes, p1800s, mk 1 escorts, 1600s, HK/HG 186 monaros all of which could have been had for under 12 grand for a pretty clean or immaculate example (1600s/escorts).......12 years on they have all doubled, tripled or quadrupled in price..........it's just science :) I don't think Im sitting on a goldmine but appreciate that old cars with a bit of history tend to rise given enough time...... people went nuts importing fastback mustangs into Australia around the same time thinking they were a collector, 6 cyl bas models were selling for 35...... you can now buy pretty much whatever code clean fastback for under 50 unless its a special order or gt etc..... mustangs were the commodore of the US yet we saw them as a collector :) so there is a supply and demand issue also :)


Edited by 74zzz, 21 December 2016 - 09:05 AM.


#39 gav240z

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 09:24 AM

Gav, the vehicles you tend to post fetching big dollars are time warp matching numbers cars, 432s or nut and bolt massive dollar restos.....I agree as a car gets older and therefore rarer, prices will climb, give that an extra boost of a beautiful shape, a boom in jap import scene and solid racing success  BUT there are still too many around to be worried about 'proper' investment potential.... yep mines doubled in price in 10 years, not a bad return but.....she aint ever gonna be a 2000gt or s20 engined hako/432. Don't get me wrong there is 'some' money to be made but not enough to worry about flares or not unless you got the coin to sit 10 restored examples in a shed for the next 20 years while they appreciate.......My old boy sold a fully restored BJ8 healey 40 years ago for $1200 they are only just hitting 100k now and have a fairly healthy world following..... I'll be 75 in 40 years time....i'll have my fun now and not worry about 2056 :) The only reason I am interested in the increasing prices is I can shut the missus down by saying " I can still sell it for more than i've spent on it" every time she complains when i buy new parts haha.   

 

I understand your perspective, but keep in mind that the too many still around thing really relates to LHD (HLS30's) and not HS30's (inc. suffix -H), PS30s, S30s etc.. Basically if you want an original RHD car you've got limited options. Thankfully the sheer number of HLS30's is what is helping with parts supply, but that will change as values have and are increasing in the HLS30 market.

 

I've already noted many items becoming more expensive as a result. This is magnified in the early S30Z market in particular. Ashtrays selling for $500 USD as an example. Early D hubcaps cost a fortune now etc..

 

In Japan the earlier cars before 1974 tend to fetch a Premium price, because there is so few left. A lot of later S31's and 74+ models are still floating about, often mocked up to look earlier (backdated). But even they are fetching $40-$50k if they are any good.

 

Obviously different markets have different price settings and supply / demand ratios, but much of the price setting is now not only internal market forces within Australia but also external (UK, parts of Asia) etc.. This makes our cars different to say Monaro's or Falcons (maybe the exception for XA / XB Falcon Coupe's given Mad Max etc.).

 

I think so long as P cars (Porka's) continue to appreciate, then our cars will also, because they appeal to the same segment of the market.

 

However it's a mixed market at the same time, you've got original examples appreciating whilst younger blokes are buying them up to fit flares, RBs, and rota's. Which only makes original cars rarer. I honestly don't mind if people want to modify their cars or fit flares, do engine swaps (although I cringe when I see it on low vin # 240z's I must say). But the more these cars get messed about with, the more the original examples will elevate in price. Each modified S30Z is a counter weight to original example values going up... 


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#40 260DET

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 10:08 AM

The thing with modifying a car is that you want to spend as little as possible on buying the subject so the way things are now it's unlikely that anything which could be considered original will be within the suitable price range. Which is why, as I said before, it's good that prices are rising and Zeds are not now being treated as disposible consumables. About bloody time.


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