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really fast Sc 240z


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#21 Lurch ™

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 04:22 AM

My apologies Nato.
I guess I read into your comment too much...

Feel free to re-post your comment.

#22 620Z

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 07:36 AM

some of you guys talk about times at the Island with no personal experience under 1.55. I can tell you from personal experience and discussion with anyone doing those times or under at the island that they are all 4 wheel drifting (or sliding) to get those times. My brother has recently done 1.50's in his 240Z and he is drifting everywhere and he has 255's all round. I only say this because I see it when he pass's and I'm trying to keep up. Sure his car is more powerful and has wider tyres than the car in question so logic would tell you he is driving to the max as well. Until you have personally done those times I think you might be guessing at best what the driver is doing. By the way Lurch the V8 Supercars 4 wheel drift to hold their speed into long sweeping corners on all the tracks. Check it out on TV. Maybe try it your self and improve those times. :-) I was certainly doing the same on the back straight at Symmons Plains a month ago. Getting a 4 wheel slide doesn't mean you aren't doing nice smooth lines, all it means is you can carry more speed through the corner and you definately need to do that at the Island since it isn't a power track. The only way you know you are on the limit is if you are bordering on the 4 wheel slide. Edging between holding the lines firm on the corners and sliding slightly.

#23 Scando

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 12:11 PM

By the way Lurch the V8 Supercars 4 wheel drift to hold their speed into long sweeping corners on all the tracks.


That's because they don't have a diff.  When you have two back wheels fighting against each other you have to compensate somehow through driving or setup (Watch Craig Lowndes driving style, hard at the apex with a bit of a slide on entry and then silky smooth to get the power down on the exit).  In my car with the welded diff I run a slightly stiffer rear end to get the rear to slide a little on entry instead of understeering.  On the exits though I have to have the car in a straight line or it's just wheel spinning and going nowhere.  I only run 215's and if I get carried away and don't drive smoothly then it's only quick for about 3 laps before the tyres turn to Jelly!  It would be even worse on 195's!  I can understand how your brothers car would be quick drifting a little on 255's because the wider tyres wouldn't heat up as easily.

If you have no power and no grip then you have to be smooth to be quick.  The more power and the more grip you have then the more you can afford to be aggressive and slide the car.

That's my 2 cents worth.

#24 260Coupe

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 01:24 PM

Mossy

I agree , my NC MX5 in stock standard form (ie on road tyres) makes 102 rwkw and is good for a comfortable 2.01 at P.I..........a few guys in the MX5 club are posting sub 2.mins in stock new MXs
It's all about clean fast lines with good corner speed (which the MX5 excels at), the fastest time I posted in my old Sc Zed in an Historic event (1:59 prior to the engine refresh) was done with very smooth driving and no drifting. The only "drift" that was apparent was if you have the conyonnies to go flat out round the sweeper onto the front straight and allow the car to "drift" across the track right to the endge of the ripple strip (same as thru turn one) which is more understeer push than a rear wheel drift (not enough RW HP to do that).
The Sc rules state that you cannot run any wheel bigger than a 14 x 6 hence the 195 wide tyre, the old addage is that great handling improves grip immensly.......wider tyres may improve grip a little but do not improve handling.
BTW
l was at P.I and did not see any evidence of drifting far as Pter Hall was concerned, all his lines were consistant and as smooth as silk with great exit speed out of the corners.

As a matter of interest the Porker 944s making less than 100 rwkw are doing 1:26s around Sandown......for a car with a greater kerb mass than a Zed that is a great time......and it's all down to the handling set up (and some good helm work of course)

#25 zr240

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 03:28 PM

Ash you keep saying how fast your car is but I haven't seen it on the track for maybe 5 years or more. I might add that you wern't driving the car when those times were posted.


Craig I think you will find I was drivig the car when it did 1:47!!!

I can get the refering pages from Natsoft if you want proof. The previous owner of my car did 1:50's

So I think you might need to check your history!!

I also have in car footage of my car (with me driving) doing these times and Im not 4 wheel drifting. But I guess it depends what you classify as drifting as there is always a little slip as you are exiting some of the high speed coners.

Your comments do piss me off a little as I raced my car for quite a few years in MS before some tosser in a porche t-boned me and wrote my car off, so Im sorry if I havent got bags of money to chuck at my car (like your car) so its taken me a lot longer to get my car back on the track.

Anyway I dont want to pick fights with people but I think there should be maybe a little respect and check there facts before posting.

Also I think lurch has run some events aswell But im not 100% sure on what exactly hes done?

So to sum it up I have the exp on phillip island, I have video and actually have some datalogged info.


Ash



#26 zr240

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 03:37 PM

Here is the link to one of the meetings I did 1:47's

http://www.natsoft.c...6/2002.PHIL.R16

sure its in 2002 I think it still counts!

Ash

#27 Lurch ™

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 04:37 PM

OK guys, I think we all need to pull our heads in - including myself.

Try to keep it on topic please & avoid personal insults.

#28 Zedman240®

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 05:07 PM

Well with me there watching (and taking the pic) of Peter in his 260, exiting the sweeper before the main straight, I swear he had railway tracks underneath his car! You could tell he was on the edge of losing traction (thanks to centrifugal force) as the car was exiting the corner and accelerating pretty damn quickly..At most I'd say there was a hint of understeer but at no time was the rear end sliding. All I know is he can set his car up and knows how to drive it on the edge!

#29 warrenz

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 09:15 PM

Hi

I also saw him running at Phillip Island on the weekend and it was clean lines no drifting, very impressive performance. The Porsche's were getting him under brakes

I forgot to go looking for him in the pits but last time I saw under his bonnet a couple of years ago at Phillip Island he had triple 40mm webers. Then a few months later he sold them on ebay and he said he was updating to fuel injection.

Can you run fuel injection is Sc, or would he have been running a different class then?

Warren

#30 nat0_240_chevZ

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 09:25 PM

i swear him and his son were now running 6 tb's with both running motecs, but then i thought i was tripping, anyways guys,
he runs no rear sway bar, and a whole bunch of old time exp, which is what makes him,quick!!!

i remember the classic adelaide rally a few years back where he ran 2nd outright only to a porsche 959 4wd turbo, yes he lives in the very same hills that the rally is ran in but thats not the point, he would easily tripple my age and probly ayleast double my age in exp with Zeds, here and aus wide known as the Z king for work, but he will sure charge you to do any work on your car, and i mean bling blow!!!$$$

nato

ps cant even entirely remember what i said in the edited post above, i do remember it being cheeky but certainly not facetios.

NOWNOW boys easy!!!, no need to get facetious!!!

#31 thehelix112

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 10:26 PM

Whats the point in arguing about something so subjective?

Four wheel drifting to someone might be tight clean lines to someone else.

Suffice to say the slip angle is likely to be > 0?

Dave

#32 zr240

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 06:20 AM

Well he definatly shouldnt be running triples of any decription!

I hope he isnt as that would make the time not as impressive and also a big cheat.


Ash



#33 620Z

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 07:34 AM

Hey Ash sorry for not having my facts in order. If you were driving your car doing 1.47's then I applaud you on those times. (I don't need facts to back it up if you say you did then I beleive you no problem) I guess like you say he might have been getting a little slippage which I am terming as 4 wheel drifting. I guess it comes down to interpritation. I am well aware full blown drifting will slow you down Lurch. But you have to SLIDE all 4 wheels to some extent to get a great time at the Island. I guess that was my point.  :)

#34 PZG302

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 08:06 AM

You can EFI in Sc, but you have to run the car as a 280Z with L28. There is one in Qld that runs pretty well with 195rwHP showing on the dyno he uses to tune it. The owner has spent some pretty big dollars on the motor to get it to where it is.

And yes in racing it all comes down to the set up, if you want to make up seconds per lap, get the handling sorted, big power will only get you tenths in a lap. Get too much power for the chassis and you can't use it, hence the power sliding Group Nc cars with 6-700hp that goe like stink in a straight line, but get eaten up by better handling cars under brakes and around corners. Anyone remember how quick Minis were against GT Falcons and Monaros on tight tracks???

#35 Zeddophile

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 06:02 PM

And yes in racing it all comes down to the set up, if you want to make up seconds per lap, get the handling sorted, big power will only get you tenths in a lap. Get too much power for the chassis and you can't use it, hence the power sliding Group Nc cars with 6-700hp that goe like stink in a straight line, but get eaten up by better handling cars under brakes and around corners. Anyone remember how quick Minis were against GT Falcons and Monaros on tight tracks???


As the old hands say, weight loss is the cheapest form of horsepower.....

#36 zr240

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 07:43 PM

No Problem Craig I worked hard for that time so I guess im a little precious :)

Ash




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