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240Z Fuel Tank Removal. Oh Dear.


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#1 gav240z

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 11:37 PM

Hi Guys,

I've just put down tools in frustration, I have been working on the removal of the fuel tank in my 70 240z, the problem however is rusted on bolts that secure the straps, I managed to get 1 side sorted, but the side where the bolt hooks onto a bracket from the spare tyre well is giving grief. I'm ever so close to getting the nut off the thread but rust means I am having a very hard time turning the bolt.

 

Such a hard time in fact I've managed to bend the bracket about 90 degrees or so.. I've drained the fuel tank yesterday so there shouldn't be any fuel in there but of course I still smell fuel and I'm a bit too invested in self preservation to take an angle grinder to the bolt or strap set up, for fear the sparks will ignite fuel vapors and send me right to the Darwin award hall of fame.

 

So any tips? I'd post photos but was using my mobile phone as a flash light in the garage and it's now got a flat battery....



#2 dat2kman

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 11:44 PM

Inox or WD40, and patience.
Take your time, and work it back and forth.
There will still be dregs of fuel, so refit drain plug.
And, the breather hoses on top RHS will need undoing and prising off, before it will come away.

#3 PB260Z

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 11:59 PM

Hi Gav

As Jason said, Inox or WD40, spray it on tonight and leave it to soak overnight.

Good luck

#4 Geos260

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 07:11 AM

hi gav, i used to work on fuel tankers and weld them, to de gas the tank, just take the plug out and run hot water from where u fill the tank from and let the water run for 20 min, the vapour of the hot water carries out with it the fuel vapour and it should be fine to do wat ever u want, just make sure your fuel lines are done aswell or cover them up

 

hope that helps, cheers George



#5 gav240z

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 08:33 AM

Thanks for the tips guys, another thought I had was to cut the metal strap with tin snips. It's already bent and I guess I'd just have to source another.. Bit of a ham fisted approach but sometimes you don't have other easier options at hand.



#6 RLY240

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 09:11 AM

If you have loosened the nut some way already you might be able to lift the strap enough to remove the bolt from the hanger, it's designed to pop out once loose enough.

Roger



#7 gav240z

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 09:17 AM

Yeah tried that and now that I've bent the bracket it's sort of stuck hooked to it. LOL... Oh dear.

 

Anyway if I have to destroy something to get it out I will... The tank is quite beat up underneath, may need another 1 anyway..



#8 Impatient1

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 09:32 AM

I struggled with the same bolts, I eventually got them out using an impact drill, which made very quick work of it. Not sure if you've tried that - running hot water through it first is probably a good idea.
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#9 Enzo

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 09:37 AM

Hi Gav,

           There is an aerosol can that can be bought from Bunnings and other stores. It's a can of Freeze and lubricant. Supposedly the freeze cracks the rust so the lubricant can wick into the joint allowing the nut to be removed. Sorry, but I can't remember what it's called.

David.


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#10 PB260Z

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 11:44 AM

Hi Gav,
           There is an aerosol can that can be bought from Bunnings and other stores. It's a can of Freeze and lubricant. Supposedly the freeze cracks the rust so the lubricant can wick into the joint allowing the nut to be removed. Sorry, but I can't remember what it's called.
David.


Loctite "Freeze & Release" is said to be pretty good
http://www.loctite.c...d=8802649931777

You can get it at Whitworths.

https://www.whitwort...ntAbsolutePage=

Cheers
PB

#11 RLY240

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 01:11 PM

Yeah tried that and now that I've bent the bracket it's sort of stuck hooked to it. LOL... Oh dear.

 

Anyway if I have to destroy something to get it out I will... The tank is quite beat up underneath, may need another 1 anyway..

If I was forced to cut something to remove the tank I'd be cutting the strap, probably easier to replace.

Roger


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#12 gav240z

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 01:28 PM

Loctite "Freeze & Release" is said to be pretty good
http://www.loctite.c...d=8802649931777

You can get it at Whitworths.

https://www.whitwort...ntAbsolutePage=

Cheers
PB

 

Thanks Peter,

 

It all sounds so easy...

 

 

 

The exceptional shock-freeze effect of this penetrating oil causes microscopic cracks in the layer of rust, allowing the lubricating ingredient to wick directly into the rust by capillary action. The rusted bolt assembly can be easily dismantled after allowing only 1-2 minutes penetration time.

 

If only these things were ever that easy :).

 

 

If I was forced to cut something to remove the tank I'd be cutting the strap, probably easier to replace.

Roger

 

Yeah I thought about it last night, the strap isn't too thick so I reckon a pair of tin snips should be able to get through them and the strap was already bent or twisted anyway, I could of course beat it back into shape but.. I don't think it will be too hard to get another.. I think I should be able to beat the bracket back into shape, failing that I'll undo the spot welds on it and get another also.



#13 gav240z

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 11:21 PM

So... the good news is the tank is out, the bad news is I had to cut a fuel strap to get it out and I managed to mangle the bracket on the wheel well while doing it. They say sometimes you gotta break a few eggs if you wanna make an omelette or something like that...

 

Mangled bracket...

IMG_20160405_215833.jpg

 

I managed to bend it back into shape a little..

IMG_20160405_223039.jpg

Cut strap.

IMG_20160405_223225.jpg

 

A few other gotcha's, although it's not a hard job if bolts are not rusted or in an ideal world, we're talking about 45+ year old cars now which many have never had their fuel tanks removed no doubt... So there's bound to be a few hiccup's along the way.

 

Fuel filler neck hose clamp..the problem here is that the clamp rusted up the thread and vice grips just caused it to spin, not undo the screw/thread part. Luckily I managed to loosen it enough so that I could wiggle the filler hose off the tank.

IMG_20160405_223206.jpg

 

The fuel vent line is hidden at the rear of the tank and can't be seen until the tank has been partially dropped.

IMG_20160405_223059.jpg

IMG_20160405_215853.jpg

 

You also need to remove the fuel hose inc. return line.

IMG_20160405_223046.jpg

 

Disconnect the sender unit wiring. Can be a little tricky to unhook.

IMG_20160405_223052.jpg

 

And out she comes...

IMG_20160405_215532.jpg

 

Anyway when draining the fuel I was surprised the fuel didn't really smell off, it was slightly discoloured but it didn't have an 'off' smell, then again I'm not really sure what 'off' fuel smells like. It just smelt like fuel to me... I suppose I'd know if it was bad from what I've read before.

 

A bit hard to show here, but the inside of the tank looks spotless.

IMG_20160405_215714.jpg

 

The fuel tank is pretty beat up underneath..

IMG_20160405_215654.jpg

IMG_20160405_215638.jpg

IMG_20160405_215645.jpg

IMG_20160405_215649.jpg

 

On the positive side I got a good look around the rear of the car and there is nothing to suggest any serious rear end damage. Just a very light rear end shunt at some point in it's life. Only issue I found was a small hole where the exhaust hanger bracket is welded to the rear of the car (seen here). It looks like a non-standard weld to me...

 

So questions are:

 

Q1. Has anyone had a beat up fuel tank like this restored before and how did it turn out? Can it be split and beaten back into shape?

 

Q2. Is it better to find a tank in better shape?

 

Q3. Any places in Sydney people can recommend for fuel tank work?


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#14 GongZ

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 11:36 PM

Someone else will know more, but this technique might work;

 

 

Do you know if these are the power and earth wires for an electric fuel pump?

 

Fuel pump connectors.JPG


Edited by GongZ, 05 April 2016 - 11:55 PM.


#15 gav240z

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 11:51 PM

Thanks Ian, yeah I am familiar with the technique in the video, just get a bit nervous about welding work on a fuel tank ;). I guess if I entirely drain it of all remaining fuel by hanging it upside down, then using boiling water to flush it out it should be ok. I guess removing dents would be like any other metal work.

 

Still would be good to get it double-checked for leaks / holes or other issues. The inside does look clean however.

 

Do you if these are the power and earth wires for an electric fuel pump?

 

I believe they are yes and I believe all 240z's had these in the loom. I am pretty sure some early S30z's had electric fuel pumps. I want to say it was a home market thing but not 100% sure.


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#16 GongZ

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 11:55 PM

Cool - I ran a separate set of wires when I installed a fuel pump - but I would like to use these instead.



#17 PB260Z

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Posted 06 April 2016 - 12:07 AM

Anyway when draining the fuel I was surprised the fuel didn't really smell off, it was slightly discoloured but it didn't have an 'off' smell, then again I'm not really sure what 'off' fuel smells like. It just smelt like fuel to me... I suppose I'd know if it was bad from what I've read before.

Fuel that has gone off can smell like varnish, that is what I found in the tank of an old Falcon that had been sitting for years.

Cheers
PB
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#18 gav240z

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Posted 06 April 2016 - 12:26 AM

Some good info here also.

http://www.secondcha...nk-repair-1.cfm

http://www.secondcha...nk-repair-2.cfm

 

Interesting what they said about the 50s Ferrari gas tank.



#19 Cozza

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Posted 06 April 2016 - 07:36 AM

Do you know if these are the power and earth wires for an electric fuel pump?
 


Yes, I used these wires for my electric fuel pump conversion. I found they terminated near the fuse panel so thought that was a good place for a relay and a cut out relay thingy (to stop the pump when their was no spark.)

 

Edit:

Here is a thread I made comments in previously

http://www.viczcar.c...ric#entry153855


Edited by Cozza, 06 April 2016 - 01:45 PM.

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#20 gav240z

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 05:01 PM

After much deliberation on the topic and reading lots of forum threads on the subject (some advised using inert gas to pump into the tank such as co2) I decided I would not do any welding on the tank myself - even though I ordered a Kingchrome slide hammer kit already. I like my eyebrows where they are, and the eyes my mother gave to me and although I could have filled the tank with water or done all sorts of workarounds given the tank is in good shape internally I think it is worth outsourcing this job to a specialist..

 

I called: http://www.alexandri...service.com.au/spoke with a chap named Sonny and all going well I'll drop the OEM radiator and fuel tank down their way this weekend. With the fuel tank he told me I can save some money doing work myself but the fuel tank lining stuff smells really bad so must be done outside of you'll pass out (sounds fun!). So we will see what happens once he has seen the tank. If there is easy stuff I can do i'll do it.

 

I saw that Kevin from Japanese Nostalgic Car (Babalouie) had his Skyline radiator re-done by the same guys and the quality of work looks good.

http://www.performan...1#post840947052

 

For those not familiar with Kevin's skyline - check this video out.

 

I'm not sure what shape my radiator is in, so they will be able to pressure test and evaluate it for me (it had coolant sitting in it for 20+ years) and if it can be upgraded to a 3 core (assuming it's only a 2 core) I'll do that at the same time. Will give an update on how things go.


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