blu260z Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 (edited) Hi guys. I promised Andrew (Definitely purple) a few weeks ago a welding tutorial for sheet metal with a gasless mig. Found some time this arvo to do a quick video. I figured I might aswell put it here aswell as many others might be having trouble with their gasless migs and panel work. Feel free to add if you think I have missed an important point. I tryed to include as much as I could without it turning into a novel ☺ I actually say the welder is a 180c BOC welder my mistake its actually a Lincoln 180c. Happy welding fellas. Chris I didnt realise the youtube video needed rotating so please click the link http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag127/chrispsawyer/Mobile%20Uploads/th_20160403_101537_zpsn2h1mdbh.mp4 Edited April 8, 2016 by blu260z krizza, gav240z, GongZ and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dat2kman Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 Hitting the Like button! Well explained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirpent Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 Well done Chris. Should be made into a sticky, by the way, I saw another tutorial on gasless some months back, and the welder advised that when a shielded gas wasnt being used, he trimmed the gun nozzle back 5mm so that the welding tip was aligned with the nozzle end and demonstrated that this produces a better weld with gasless wire. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blu260z Posted April 3, 2016 Author Share Posted April 3, 2016 (edited) Sirpent I havent heard of that before. The gasless mig doesnt even need a shroud/nozzle, it uses the flux in the wire to protect the weld. Here is my nozzle setup it is what is supplied by Lincoln welders. Edited April 3, 2016 by blu260z Sirpent 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirpent Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 Im trying to find the YouTube tutorial, but I believe that what he was conveying was that the nozzle set up on a gas set up creates a chamber for the gas to shield the wire with the welding tip tucked inside the nozzle some 5mm. Reducing the nozzle length brings the welding tip closer to the weld area but still protects it from melt down. Effectively, the tip set up you have shown has the tip fully exposed The pic attached shows the set ups I was refering to. Still think you have done many on here a service with your tutorial, well done, its just that many will have a traditional nozzle set up and some fine tuning may be needed to get the right results, it was good that you clarified your set up. Cheers John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blu260z Posted April 3, 2016 Author Share Posted April 3, 2016 John that setup would work perfectly fine. But for gasless no nozzle is required. Only real reason I can see for making the nozzle shorter is so the end doesnt fill up with spatter because there is so much more with gasless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24TZ Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Great video, cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_L26 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Hey guys, thought I'd come back to this. I found out recently in a my mechanical engineering course that using a damp rag will actually introduce hydrogen into the weld and surrounding metal, this can cause cracking and will overall weaken the weld, whether or not this will cause any significant issues with normal heat cycles depends on a large amount of factors such as heat when welding, type of shielding gas (or flux core), humidity etc. A better alternative would be either oil or sand, sand would be a better alternative however it may be harder to use on a panel. Oil will prevent hydrogen from being introduced into the welds whilst still cooling them! Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATTY Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 personally i would be using a .6 silicone bronze wire on any panel/light sheet work. the gasless is too messy and sometimes requires more heat which will give you more distortion in the sheet metal not to mention the clean up can be a pain trying to remove all bits of slag and any possible slag inclusions in your weld that might happen.. might be worth mentioning for people who dont know that with the gasless you need to drag (when theres slag you need to drag) like when using a stick welder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blu260z Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) Andrew in terms of cooling the welds for panel work a damp rag is best as you need to quench the weld and move onto another location. In 99.9% of situations in high strength/structual welding natural cooling is best and oil or sand wouldnt work in vertical positions. Neither have I seen or heard of sand or oil used to cool a weld. Matty the video is only to show panel work can be done with gasless. Gasless is messy and Tig welding the panel would be the best option. ☺ Edited March 30, 2017 by blu260z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_L26 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Andrew in terms of cooling the welds for panel work a damp rag is best as you need to quench the weld and move onto another location. In 99.9% of situations in high strength/structual welding natural cooling is best and oil or sand wouldnt work in vertical positions. Neither have I seen or heard of sand or oil used to cool a weld. Matty the video is only to show panel work can be done with gasless. Gasless is messy and Tig welding the panel would be the best option. ☺ Yes for any structural welds allowing the welds to cool slowly is best as it will prevent segregation cooling rates where the outer layer may cool much faster then inside possibly causing cracks (as well as hardening the material which will promote cracks under flex). When I meant cool with oil I meant rather then using a damp rag (with water) you can use a damp rag with oil. The issue with using water is that when the metal is hot the metal will accept the hydrogen atoms from the water causing point defects in the steel/welds, when this happens it has the ability to weaken both the surrounding steel and welds. The reason oil is a better option is that it will not introduce hydrogen (or oxygen) into the weld but it will introduce a small amount of carbon which will strengthen the weld slightly but more importantly it should prevent rust on the welds. In many cases even when working with extremely low carbon steel (such as that on old jap cars) the heat from welding can upset the temper causing a microscopic clumping of carbon atoms (this is one of the reasons why welds usually rust faster than the surrounding metal) When cooling with oil, the new carbon is accepted into the weld and surrounding area increasing the carbon content and therefore reducing it's rate of corrosion. I think the reason that it isn't popular is because it really doesn't affect the final product a whole heap haha Cheers, Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Z Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Switching the polarity helps with a cleaner weld with gasless mig. Less splatter and less pourous welds. Im not too sure why, but something i was taught and has helped me alot in the past. But welding with gas is stronger and better finish imo Andrew_L26 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_L26 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Switching the polarity helps with a cleaner weld with gasless mig. Less splatter and less pourous welds. Im not too sure why, but something i was taught and has helped me alot in the past. But welding with gas is stronger and better finish imo Note that most gasless only welders come pre wired for this, it's the ones that have the ability to run gas that you need to switch! Retro Z 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSTS88 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Thanks, since I started learning welding on a job site with my elder brother, so this discussion is very helpful to me. Andrew_L26 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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