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What's The Blinking Story?


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#1 GongZ

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 06:53 PM

From my observations, cars delivered to non-USA markets from about 1973 to 1975 (i.e. late 240Z's and some 260Z's) had their front blinkers in separate housings, mounted ABOVE the front bumper. The front bumper did not have overriders - possibly to maximisie the angle from which these blinkers could be seen.

This was also brought up here-

 

Datsun UK Ltd ( a concessionaire ) were so cheap that they simply used the Datsun Netherlands photo shoot car for the UK market brochure:

agby.jpg

But apart from the door mirrors ( and the fact that this is an LHD car instead of an RHD car... ) pretty much most of the UK market cars looked like the above 'Euro' spec car. The front indicators were deleted from the corner valances ( special press tooling was made ) and moved up to the top of the front bumper, and front sidelights were incorporated into the headlamp units. All this done to meet new European standards on lighting ( height and function ). 

Note the front and rear spoilers, which were standard equipment on all 'Euro' and UK market cars.

 

Note that Australian (and NZ?) cars retained the 'corner lights' under the bumper as sidelights/parking lights.

 

I have also seen photos, and owners stating that their cars have the blinkers mounted BELOW the bumper, like this - 

 

kIRyDk3F.jpg

 

My hypothesis is that all such cars had them mounted above the bumper originally - but some owners have chosen to relocate them below the bumper, because they prefer the look.

Has anyone ever seen an original sales photo or road test with the blinkers below the bumper to disprove my theory?

 

(a reply from HS30-H would be appreciated - hint hint)



#2 PB260Z

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 07:12 PM

Has anyone ever seen an original sales photo or road test with the blinkers below the bumper to disprove my theory?

(a reply from HS30-H would be appreciated - hint hint)

I have a collection of US roadtests articles from launch in 1970 through to the ZX days at home.
Will have a look and post a photo, not sure that they will support your theory.

Edited by PB260Z, 07 September 2015 - 07:19 PM.


#3 GongZ

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 07:33 PM

OK Peter - that should be interesting. The only US S30Z's that I have seen with blinkers above the front bumper are the 280Z's which had them set into the grille - so I was discounting them.

 

post-24552-14150827817922.jpg



#4 PB260Z

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 08:29 PM

Hi

Had a look, my articles are US market cars and yes you are correct indicators under the bar until 280Z then they went to the grille

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Edited by PB260Z, 07 September 2015 - 08:41 PM.

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#5 GongZ

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 08:43 PM

This is a better picture of the blinkers

Blinkers.JPG   



#6 WA240Z

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 08:55 PM

I have a very late (August) '73 240Z. It has the blinkers under the bumper bar and the bumper has over riders.


Edited by WA240Z, 07 September 2015 - 09:18 PM.

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#7 gav240z

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 09:00 PM

I have a very late (August) 240Z. It has the blinkers under the bumper bar and the bumper has over riders.


I have video footage of my 73 240z and they were under the bumper as described. I have no reason to believe they were ever anywhere else and the car was very original. So I believe AU market cars had them under the bumper. Probably above the bumper on UK cars for their lighting rules.

#8 GongZ

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 09:46 PM

The photo in post #5 above is of my car. I bought this car (a Sep '73 complianced 240Z) in 1985 from the original owner (with under 20,000 miles on it). 

I sincerely doubt that he had moved the blinkers from below to above the bumper, the car had no other modifications whatsoever.

 

Telling me where the blinkers may be on a car now is not helpful.  As I said -

 

My hypothesis is that all such cars had them mounted above the bumper originally - but some owners have chosen to relocate them below the bumper, because they prefer the look.

...

 

Here are 2 photos from the November 1973 (Australian) Motor Manual magazine to support my theory.

 

MM Nov73 cover.JPG MM Nov73 article.JPG

 

So - "Has anyone ever seen an original sales photo or road test with the blinkers below the bumper to disprove my theory?"

 

(PS - Allan Moffat & Ian Geoghegan won the 1973 Bathurst race after Doug Chivas ran out of petrol in the car he co-drove with Peter Brock and had to push it back to the pits - and they still managed to come second!)


Edited by GongZ, 07 September 2015 - 11:50 PM.


#9 GongZ

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 10:26 PM

Here is another clue. This close up of my blinker shows that the shape of the back of the housing clears the headlight housing. I contend that it was designed to do so.

 

73 front blinker.JPG

 

Where I have seen the blinkers mounted below the bumper, such as shown in the photo below, the blinkers are closer together, and there is nothing that needs clearance.

If anyone has this type of blinker fitted below the bumper, can they confirm whether or not the back of the housing has this shape?

 

under bumper front blinkers.JPG


Edited by GongZ, 07 September 2015 - 10:52 PM.


#10 HS30-H

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 11:51 PM

 My hypothesis is that all such cars had them mounted above the bumper originally - but some owners have chosen to relocate them below the bumper, because they prefer the look.

Has anyone ever seen an original sales photo or road test with the blinkers below the bumper to disprove my theory?

 

(a reply from HS30-H would be appreciated - hint hint)

 

 

OEM spec for UK and most 'European' market (ie not all European mainland markets) cars was ON TOP of the bumper. Factory 'R-Drive' parts manual makes the orientation clear, as do original sales brochures, press and period advertising. There's no argument about it. That's how it was. Dealers and/or owners with 12mm spanners soon started messing about with them though.

 

As for Australian / NZ market, you're on your own and good luck with that. The R-Drive parts manual pages for just the front indicators and marker lamps are complicated enough to make me blow a fuse...


Edited by HS30-H, 07 September 2015 - 11:51 PM.


#11 GongZ

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 11:57 PM

Thank you Alan - a 12mm spanner you say? 



#12 PeterH

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 08:15 AM

I bought my first 240Z new in early 1973....It had the turn signals above the bumper bar and no over riders....

 

ADR 6 came into effect for passenger cars in January 1973

https://infrastructu...sign/pdf/06.pdf

 

Attached page from the RHD parts manual.

PS - Allan Moffat & Ian Geoghegan won the 1973 Bathurst race after Doug Chivas ran out of petrol in the car he co-drove with Peter Brock and had to push it back to the pits - and they still managed to come second!)

PPS - John Goss and Kevin Bartlet won the 1974 Bathurts race with KB driving the car accross the line in the rain on Allan Moffats wet tyres.

 

240z turn signals parts page.JPG



#13 GongZ

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 01:15 AM

Thanks Peter,

 

So ADR6 basically requires that the lenses of the front blinkers be orange/amber in colour for cars made on or after 1973.

This ruled out carrying on with the shared white parking/blinkers fitted to front of earlier cars.

 

The parts diagram that Alan mentioned, and you have attached, shows the washers and nuts below the blinker housing,

which indicates (pun intended) that the blinkers were mounted on top of the front bumper.

 

So I would conclude that, as a stop-gap measure to comply with ADR6,  1973 240Z's were fitted with the same front blinkers

as the UK/European cars, and that they were also mounted on top of the bumpers.

 

260Z's then had the split white/orange front blinkers/parkers under the bumpers.



#14 GongZ

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:02 AM

'The Z Farm' is a company that specialises in restorations of Datsun 240Z's, 260Z's and 2280ZX's.

They are located in North Yorkshire in England and were chosen by Nissan (GB) Ltd to restore a 1971 240Z (registration AWU491K) that was used at the UK launch of the 350Z.

AWU491K.JPG  

This car has since been used in numerous press and internet articles and as shown in this photo - it has the front blinkers under the bumper.

I sent an email to Mr Duncan Pearcey at The Z Farm regarding this issue and has has kindly given me permission to publish his response on this forum -

 

My message to Duncan;

"Hello Duncan,

 
I have a 1973 Australian delivered 240Z which I purchased from the original owner in 1985. My car has the front blinkers mounted on top of the front bumper.
I have seen plenty of other similar cars which have them below the bumper, and the gallery on your website shows examples of both.
My assumption is that the factory fitted them on top, but some owners have decided to move them to the existing holes below the bumper, because they prefer the look.
Could you please tell me what you know/think about this issue?
Best regards ..."
 
Duncan's reply;
"Hi Ian
 
Debated many times on the Club Forum..........it all boils down to this :-
The original UK cars and most Euro markets had them above the Bumper for the  height issue within the prevailing Regulations.
However, I personally think that they look much better and make a neater cluster with the Number plate, etc.,  below the Bumper, and fit most of our Restos in this fashion.
Hey - it's your Car - you do with it just what you like ! 
 
Regards
Duncan Pearcey
The 'Z Farm"

Edited by GongZ, 20 September 2015 - 11:38 PM.


#15 HS30-H

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:37 AM


This car has since been used in numerous press ans internet articles and as shown in this photo - it has the front blinkers under the bumper.

I sent an email to Mr Duncan Pearcey at The Z Farm regarding this issue and has has kindly given me permission to publish his response on this forum -

 

 

You didn't believe me then? ;)

 

Ironically enough, the yellow Nissan UK press car - as restored by The Z Farm - was originally an Australian market car.

 

Don't look too closely at the orientation of the front indicator repeater lenses. That'll get you going...

 


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#16 GongZ

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:06 AM

You didn't believe me then? ;)

Ironically enough, the yellow Nissan UK press car - as restored by The Z Farm - was originally an Australian market car.

Don't look too closely at the orientation of the front indicator repeater lenses. That'll get you going...

 

Of course I believed you Allan!  :-[

 

I contacted Duncan because AWU491K is often referred to as a pristine example of a 240Z, yet has the blinkers in what I consider to be the wrong place.

So many cars now have the blinkers under the bumper that it has been assumed that that is how they were delivered.

This is why I asked (in my original post to this topic) if anyone had "ever seen an original sales photo or road test with the blinkers below the bumper to disprove my theory".

 

I did not know that it was an Australian car - that is indeed ironic. 

 

The fact that it is a 1971 model therefore means that it would have been built without the bumper mounted blinkers, and being an Aussie car, it would not have had the indicator repeaters in the sides of the front fenders.

 

Unfortunately, I ignored your advice and looked "too closely at the orientation of the front indicator repeater lenses" and I am now going...


Edited by GongZ, 20 September 2015 - 04:35 PM.


#17 gav240z

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:13 PM

I did not know that it was an Australian car - that is indeed ironic. 

 

Looks like they have been stealing our supply of good S30z's for a while now  ^-^ . That's what we get for undervaluing them for so long I suppose...



#18 HS30-H

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 05:35 PM

I contacted Duncan because AWU491K is often referred to as a pristine example of a 240Z, yet has the blinkers in what I consider to be the wrong place.


I did not know that it was an Australian car - that is indeed ironic. 

 

The fact that it is a 1971 model therefore means that it would have been built without the bumper mounted blinkers, and being an Aussie car, it would not have had the indicator repeaters in the sides of the front fenders.

 

Unfortunately, I ignored your advice and looked "too closely at the orientation of the front indicator repeater lenses" and I am now going...

 

My KPGC10 shared some space on the Nissan show stand at the 2009 Goodwood Revival Meeting with 'AWU 491K'. I had a good look around the car.

 

It's a great restoration, but by 2009 it was already showing the general wear and tear of being used by many different people - often unsympathetic journalists or flunkies - many of whom probably hadn't driven many 'old' cars. It's done a real lot of work. The whole front valance, corners and 'spoiler' is an FRP repro. I guess a Euro market urethane spoiler and valance set in good enough condition could not be found in time when the car was being restored...

 

Actually, talking about cars having a hard time with press and at shows etc, the KPGC10 suffered a similar fate. In fact, when Nissan France borrowed it to display at the Le Mans Classic event all sorts of bad stuff happened. Some berk bent the bonnet hinges (by trying to shut the bonnet without flipping the lock stop off, and there's a big red sticker telling you not to do that!), the driver's seat got broken, the ignition switch had half a broken key left in it (!) and the trim on the driver's door was half broken off. People just don't know how to behave.

 

So 'AWU 491K' is actually doing quite well, all things considered.  

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#19 gav240z

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 07:41 PM

Actually, talking about cars having a hard time with press and at shows etc, the KPGC10 suffered a similar fate. In fact, when Nissan France borrowed it to display at the Le Mans Classic event all sorts of bad stuff happened. Some berk bent the bonnet hinges (by trying to shut the bonnet without flipping the lock stop off, and there's a big red sticker telling you not to do that!), the driver's seat got broken, the ignition switch had half a broken key left in it (!) and the trim on the driver's door was half broken off. People just don't know how to behave.

 

Doesn't it just drive you nuts? It's a shame those things happened, but on a positive side I'm glad to see you let Nissan France borrow it for their display. They look good together and it's important these cars are displayed at such events.

 

How does 1 break a drivers seat though? Must have been a heavy set individual? How did they explain the half broken key to you though? I'd love to have seen that.



#20 locklock

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 12:00 AM

Sorry abit off topic,
How come some 240z has signal lights on the side of the headlights and some doesn't? My 71 240z doesn't have any..




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