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#481 OdinZ

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 09:21 AM

Gav, silly question, don't the Zs sold in Japan have a VIN of S30 and not HS30?



#482 24Ozed

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 09:32 AM

I bought #166 through the trading post (paper copy) about 10- 12 years ago. Stylishly fitted with Nismo badges and the worlds largest alluminium wing spoiler. Which were both hastily removed when i got it home.

At the time i had no idea about the "early" 240z's and for me I was just happy to get one.

 

It wasn't until later down the track that I started to read up about chassis numbers and its early significance.

A few things didn't add up.. It had no vents in the hatch and had the later pillar badges.

About 6 years ago I started stripping it for rebuild and then realised that the hatch vents were still there but had been patched over. Also the later pillar badges had been retro fitted and the pilot holes for the original badges remained.

 

My father has tackled the body work with significant rust repairs and rust proofing for a future lifetime.

Body work is finished now, and it is in the process of getting painted white.
I have just about everything i need to put it back together, I think maybe 1 year and it will be back on the road.

It won't be rebuilt to original spec .. ZG Flares, Fender Mirrors, Fairlady Grill, L28 with triple 45's, Watanabes etc. 

 

Pics from past and present coming soon..


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#483 gav240z

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 10:32 AM

Gav, silly question, don't the Zs sold in Japan have a VIN of S30 and not HS30?

 

Nope. 2.4ltr home market cars with an L24 fitted were HS30's. 2.0ltr cars with L20A were S30's.

This car is a Fairlady 240Z-L and is HS30 prefixed for example. (HS30-10052)

https://petrolicious...panese-survivor

 

http://www.classiczc...ther-money-pit/

 

By the way there is also a quote from Alan in there re: start dates and VIN no's for certain production HS30's. Worth adding here also.

 

Japanese home market 'HS30' VIN-prefixed models manufactured during the calendar year of 1971 had body serial numbers 'HS30-10001' through 'HS30-10436'. Then the 1972 calendar year had 'HS30-010437' ( note that extra digit ) through 'HS30-012045', whereafter the first digit was changed over to a '1' and numbers 'HS30-100001' through 'HS30-100800' were manufactured. 1973 calendar year production started from 'HS30-100801'..........


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#484 OdinZ

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 01:57 PM

Nope. 2.4ltr home market cars with an L24 fitted were HS30's. 2.0ltr cars with L20A were S30's.

This car is a Fairlady 240Z-L and is HS30 prefixed for example.

https://petrolicious...panese-survivor

So are the S30s more rare/hold a higher value? or are they less popular because of the 2.0ltr motor?



#485 gav240z

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 02:55 PM

So are the S30s more rare/hold a higher value? or are they less popular because of the 2.0ltr motor?

 

Probably not the thread for the discussion to be honest. The answer is of course, it depends...


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#486 gav240z

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 03:11 PM

HS30 10052 was added.

http://www.classiczc...ther-money-pit/

 


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#487 24 Dat

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 07:58 AM

He is a bit more info on HS30 00026 i found from a Bonhams auction in June 2005  please read thru the text, plus i reckon they got the engine number wrong most likely L24

Lot 622
1972 DATSUN 240Z RALLY CAR
Registration no. PTD 524K (see text) Chassis no. HS3000026 (see text) Engine no. L34 048315

£15,000 - 25,000
AU$ 25,000 - 42,000
 
1972 Datsun 240Z Rally Car 
Registration no. PTD 524K (see text)
Chassis no. HS3000026 (see text)
Engine no. L34 048315
Datsun first went international rallying with the Bluebird and Cedric saloons in the early 1960s, scoring its first major success in 1966 when the Bluebird won its class in the Safari Rally. The first Datsun to make an impact on the European stage was the 240Z, a large, front-engined, rear-drive, six-cylinder coupé that was hailed as spiritual successor to the ‘Big Healey’. The ‘Z’ possessed similar virtues too, being fast in a straight line, sturdily built and ultra reliable, and was at its best in events where these factors mattered most. The car’s greatest successes was its two outright wins in the Safari Rally in 1971 and 1973, driven by Edgar Hermann and Shekhar Mehta respectively, while Tony Fall won the Welsh Rally in 1971 and Rauno Aaltonen came third in the ’72 Monte. 

This car has been prepared for rallying by Datsun dealers Bradburn Brothers Ltd, who purchased it from Stewart Coupe. Works chassis number ‘26’ had been driven on the RAC by John Bloxham, the TAP by Chris Sclater, the Welsh by Tony Fall and various other rallies by Roy Fidler (when owned by Cal Withers of Withers of Winsford) and then by Stewart Coupe.

The car had been rolled by Roy Fidler and was re-shelled by Bradburn’s, the chassis plate from ‘26’ being transferred. (This plate, bearing original Japanese characters, had been over-stamped prior to Bradburn’s ownership with numbers in European style, as European FIA scrutineers would not have been able to understand Japanese characters). Because Datsun UK rarely imported spare body shells, a second-hand Fairlady ’shell of the correct period was used for the rebuild. The 2-litre version of the ‘Z’ was marketed as the Fairlady in some markets, and this particular ’shell came from an ex-USA car that was in very good rust free condition. We understand the donor vehicle was registration PVF 289R for which the V5 is offered with this lot. Bradburn’s re-jigged the car and fitted various new chassis/body components to complete the rebuild. All the parts from the original ’shell (which was scrapped) were then transferred to the Fairlady ’shell and Jonathan Bradburn competed in the newly refurbished car in one or two events. It was sold to the vendor in November 1984. 

As lightweight panels were no longer permitted for rallying this car has steel doors, wings and tailgate but also reinforced chassis rails and engine mounts, works front struts, Group 4 brakes, an early works gearbox and roll-bar, differential cooler, works magnesium wheels and works front seats. A Datsun 240Z with an interesting competition history and works origins, retaining an extensive collection of rare works parts, it is offered with old (photocopy) V5 and current Swansea V5 registration documents. Prospective buyers are advised to check with Bonhams for any amendments to this description by the time of Sale and to satisfy themselves as to the originality, status and completeness of this vehicle prior to bidding.
 
SALEROOM NOTICES
  • The photographs illustrating this lot have been transposed with lot 619.

Attached Thumbnails

  • image.jpg
  • image 2.jpg
  • image 3.jpg

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#488 gav240z

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 08:17 AM

Yeah great car, I'd seen it before as the Kobe Seiko wheels caught my eye but couldn't find information on it's chassis no. It's technically not HS30 00026 anymore, but a Fairlady Z (S30) wearing many of it's parts.

#489 HS30-H

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 08:33 AM

Yeah great car, I'd seen it before as the Kobe Seiko wheels caught my eye but couldn't find information on it's chassis no. It's technically not HS30 00026 anymore, but a Fairlady Z (S30) wearing many of it's parts.

 

There's no "technically" about it, Gavin. It simply isn't the same car.

 

Hugely long story, but suffice to say that the current car and the original works car both had their own independent holes in space and time, but never 'became one'.


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#490 24 Dat

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 08:35 AM

Here are the supposed transposed photo mentioned 

image 4.jpg image 5.jpg image 6.jpg


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#491 24 Dat

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 08:40 AM

the photos in post #487 are from this car which was auctioned at the same time 
THE EX-WIN PERCY/CLIVE RICHARDSON/JEREMY WALTON, 6-HOUR RELAY CAR LAL, 1972 DATSUN 240Z COUPÉ
Registration no. LAL 909K Chassis no. HS3001914 Engine no. L24 071782

*Edited by gav240z to add links to source.
https://www.bonhams..../12170/lot/619/

Site appear to have issues so replying on Google-cache.
https://webcache.goo...n&ct=clnk&gl=us

PDF saved for posterity just in case page disappears in future.
Attached File  Bonhams _ The ex-Win Percy_Clive Richardson_Jeremy Walton, 6-Hour Relay Car ‘LAL’,1972 Datsun 240Z Coupé Chassis no. HS3001914 Engine no.pdf   311.95KB   10 downloads

#492 gav240z

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 09:07 AM

On the topic of Bonham's they have auctioned quite a few HS30's over the years. All of which I'll need to document.

HS30 100992
1.http://www.bonhams.c.../?category=list
HS30 12609
2. https://www.bonhams..../16245/lot/320/
HS30 12065
3. https://www.bonhams..../15338/lot/320/
HS30 01903
4.https://www.bonhams..../?category=list
HS30 013736
5.https://www.bonhams..../?category=list
‘WRA 94K’, - no chassis no. given.
6. https://www.bonhams..../?category=list
HS30 102609
7. https://www.bonhams..../15338/lot/347/
HS30 10755
8. https://www.bonhams..../16248/lot/589/
HS30 01210
9. https://www.bonhams..../15348/lot/664/

Sometimes this job makes me feel like I'm a cold case worker.
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#493 gav240z

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 09:10 AM

Just some more notes about the parts from HS30 00026 and where they went.
https://www.bonhams..../?category=list
https://www.bonhams..../12170/lot/622/

Chassis number is supposedly now: HS30 01914 Registration no. LAL 909K and Engine no. L24 071782

#494 gav240z

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 09:12 AM

This lovely looking Works Tribute is another I'll have to try and determine it's chassis no. for. Small thumbnail images won't load.
https://www.bonhams..../?category=list
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#495 24 Dat

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 09:52 AM

Hi Gav i think Bonhams stuffed up the photos as they even mention they are wrong 

These are of HS30 00026 Registration no. PTD 524K

image 4.jpg image 5.jpg image 6.jpg

 

and these are of the 

THE EX-WIN PERCY/CLIVE RICHARDSON/JEREMY WALTON, 6-HOUR RELAY CAR LAL, 1972 DATSUN 240Z COUPÉ

Registration no. LAL 909K Chassis no. HS3001914 Engine no. L24 071782

 

image.jpg image 2.jpg image 3.jpg

 

 


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#496 gav240z

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 03:10 PM

2 sets of original Kobe Seiko Magnesium alloy wheels in the wider 'works' style... Oh my indeed...

#497 HS30-H

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 03:44 PM

Just some more notes about the parts from HS30 00026 and where they went.
https://www.bonhams..../?category=list
https://www.bonhams..../12170/lot/622/

Chassis number is supposedly now: HS30 01914 Registration no. LAL 909K and Engine no. L24 071782

 

No, I think you are confusing the cars again: 'HS30-01914' / 'LAL 909K' was always 'HS30-01914' / 'LAL 909K'. It had/has nothing to do with 'HS30-00026'.  



#498 gav240z

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 05:46 PM

HLS30 00023 built Oct 1969 has 3 holes in the rear stowage box area where the tools go. I've never noticed this subtle difference before.

I checked against George's car HS30 00019 and my car HS30 00051 and I believe both only have 2. I'm away for work so can't check HS30 00150 but I believe it's solid?

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#499 HS30-H

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 09:05 PM

HLS30 00023 built Oct 1969 has 3 holes in the rear stowage box area where the tools go. I've never noticed this subtle difference before.

I checked against George's car HS30 00019 and my car HS30 00051 and I believe both only have 2. I'm away for work so can't check HS30 00150 but I believe it's solid?

 

Gav,

That is - I believe - production date-related rather than model variant-related or chassis prefix-related.

 

Early cars (meaning proper *early* production) didn't get the doubler plate on the mini bulkhead behind the seats and butting up to the trans tunnel. It's a notoriously weak area on the bodyshell and that big seam around the rearmost part of the tunnel (the one with all the Dum-Dum on it...) was prone to stress cracking in extreme cases. I think the doubler was added in part to address this, but never really fixed it 100%.

 

This is a perfect topic on which to poll the guys over at classiczcars.com who own proper early production cars. I don't think I've ever seen a definitive answer on the changeover date question, but I believe it may well have been late 1969 or very early 1970. You might like to start a thread over there to get their views.

 

Here's an example of an early 1970 production date car (actually a 432-R bodyshell) with the 'doubler plate' added, for reference:

 

diXlUG.jpg     


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#500 HS30-H

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 09:38 PM

This is a perfect topic on which to poll the guys over at classiczcars.com who own proper early production cars. I don't think I've ever seen a definitive answer on the changeover date question, but I believe it may well have been late 1969 or very early 1970. You might like to start a thread over there to get their views.

 

Just to add, I wouldn't bother with Facebook on this one. Signal to noise ratio is not the best.


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