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Classic car bubble


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#61 gav240z

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 11:26 PM

Funny how in such a short segment, he says get a 71 / 72 ignoring the 69 / 70 build cars. Which are arguably the most collectible. Then it lists prices in Japan of a "Datsun 240z" when there was no such thing. So what is that monetary figure applied to?

 

When he says 50 grand what currency is he talking about? USD, AUD? I assume USD because it was probably filmed a while ago. They have already exceeded that figure anyway, depending on the market and specification of car. If you consider HS30-H and PS30 etc.. then they totally eclipse that figure anyway..

 

Good that they (S30z's) are getting more and more recognition but calling it the most beautiful Japanese car (and I would somewhat agree in my biased view) ignores other great shapes like the Toyota 2000GT the FD RX-7 (my opinion), NSX, R32 GTR etc..



#62 GongZ

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Posted 05 September 2015 - 12:05 AM

Funny how in such a short segment, he says get a 71 / 72 ignoring the 69 / 70 build cars. Which are arguably the most collectible. Then it lists prices in Japan of a "Datsun 240z" when there was no such thing. So what is that monetary figure applied to?

 

When he says 50 grand what currency is he talking about? USD, AUD? I assume USD because it was probably filmed a while ago. They have already exceeded that figure anyway, depending on the market and specification of car. If you consider HS30-H and PS30 etc.. then they totally eclipse that figure anyway..

 

Good that they (S30z's) are getting more and more recognition but calling it the most beautiful Japanese car (and I would somewhat agree in my biased view) ignores other great shapes like the Toyota 2000GT the FD RX-7 (my opinion), NSX, R32 GTR etc..

 

I don't think many would argue that the 'early girls' are not more valuable - I have seen plenty of evidence of that in the Australian and US markets lately. (71's have been selling for top dollar on the first day of being advertised, while Matt Drago's 73 has had an extremely well executed and documented restoration and has been on the market for months.)

 

Maybe the presenter isn't aware of the existence of the earlier cars, and what he is really saying is that the 71 and 72 are more collectible than the 73?

 

The show was made earlier this year. All the values he talks about are in British pounds and in the British car market. In the screen shot attached to my post, it shows the then current approximate conversions of GBP £25,000 to US $40,000, €31,000, ¥430,000 and AU $45,000 - they are not supposed to be the value of S30's in foreign (to the UK) markets.

 

His prediction is that "they're going to go past fifty grand one day" = GBP £50,000 (AU $109,400 at today's rate). He does not give that a time frame however, so you can't argue with it - because one day within the next 5 to 300 years good examples probably will sell for that much. (Suitable fuel may be difficult to find though  ??? )

 

As for the 240Z being "the best looking sports car ever to come out of Japan" - its subjective (beauty is the eye of the ... blah,blah,blah)

mO6dTv3gPEOQK6QyyUZ-Dww.jpg


Edited by GongZ, 05 September 2015 - 12:27 AM.


#63 locklock

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Posted 05 September 2015 - 01:36 AM

The Australian import to UK orange 240z price dropped again to £19.9k
I guess car enthusiast only pay top dollars for matching numbers cars.. Another 240z V8 (rhd) asking £12k no takers.

#64 gturner008

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Posted 05 September 2015 - 08:01 AM

I can't talk for all enthusiast - but I do think having originality is important. I passed on the red car but did buy the orange car

#65 hmd

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Posted 05 September 2015 - 11:25 AM

When he says 50 grand what currency is he talking about? 

 

GBP. GB Pounds.

 

These sort of program they have about 30 seconds for this sort of segment so they tend to gloss over things. So not all things said are 100% accurate or objective

 

But we will forgive them for that ;)

 

At least there are programs like this talking about these old car .



#66 gav240z

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 04:12 PM

R32 Prices going up due to American Demand?

 

http://www.roadandtr...es-have-double/



#67 GongZ

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 04:45 PM

R32 Prices going up due to American Demand?

 

http://www.roadandtr...es-have-double/

 

I find it interesting that the US and UK markets seem oblivious to whether a car is RHD or LHD. It doesn't even rate a mention in this article.


Edited by GongZ, 10 September 2015 - 04:46 PM.


#68 Fairlady Z

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 09:18 PM

well guys been reading about this classic car bubble and comments how it will burst when the old farts pass away that remember them as youngsters.

what we are forgeting there is a massive following on all classic cars from any age.

i dont remember the mid 60s or even 70s ( didnt even see the outside world till 77) . But loved the early Stangs as far as i can remember (1984 onwards) so as Trans Am Corvettes, porsches ferraries lambos etc.. ( do remember my old man stories when he had rx3 rx4 , xw, xy,xa and xb gt, chargers etc... i sure do not recall 240z or even 260z but do remeber s2 rx7 and 280zx 300zx etc..

theres teenagers now that lust for 240z. they cant afford them now but in 10-15 years time while they cash up they be paying 60-70k for one without even thinking. bubble wont burst just get bigger.

so dont worry about the bubble. unless there is a world war it will drop but than will go skyrocket again

so keep saving and enjoying the classics. demand is always there just stock is variable.


As for r32 gtr they are simple compared to todays cars. they are as unrealiable as the previous dodgey owner.
cheap neglected cars need work. dont want to do it buy the one for 3 times the price and enjoy.

Edited by Fairlady Z, 10 September 2015 - 09:25 PM.


#69 Fairlady Z

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:05 PM

well just took the s130 for a drive. just infront of me loud 1990 merc convertible 500SL

passing a bus stop and school kids totaly ignored the once flagship of Mercedes and stared at a humble red 280zx with jaws on the ground.

bubble wont burst people. z and well known popular classic will never drop new generations take over where previous one left off.

#70 74zzz

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:56 PM

perfect logic but the arse dramatically fell out of Australian classics after the gfc........... i think these skyrocketed for the exact reasons you describe but  have never recovered to what they were....... gt falcons particularly.....definitely as there is no international market or recognition also...... beauty of datsuns is they have only just started the value climb and with the import scene taking over the muscle car market the 'original jap muscle/hero cars' will have a fairly long and steady growth for many many years to come. And as much as i hate to admit it we largley have vin diesel, paul walker and playstation to thank for cementing our investments haha


Edited by 74zzz, 11 September 2015 - 02:58 PM.


#71 gav240z

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 05:05 PM

Like any asset bubble they end when they run out of greater fools willing to pay more than the last person did.

 

Tulip Mania

https://en.wikipedia...iki/Tulip_mania

 

But do I think S30z's are over-priced? Not yet.. although there is certainly a lot of hype around Japanese Classics at the moment perhaps due to years of neglect but at the same time like any asset there is an upper ceiling to where prices can go. Relatively speaking there is still a lot of S30z's around thanks to the large numbers sold in the North American markets over the years.

 

If we took the cars from the US out of the equation and assumed the worldwide supply of S30z's was what's left in Japan, the UK, Australia etc.. That would have put a lot of upward pressure on 240z prices a long time ago. But quite a few (albeit very rough examples) still survive in North America. Of course the number of people wanting 1 has been increasing and since they are not making anymore that's meant even average ones have been steadily rising in price.



#72 gturner008

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 07:40 PM

My penny's worth (or should I say half a crown's worth given price hike)...

 

Demand is being fuelled by poor returns from equities, a clamp down on what you can put away into private pensions, release of funds from private pensions (since April 15 in UK), the fact that capital gain from private use cars is exempt from CGT (certainly in the UK) and a 40-60 age group who want to relive their teens and buy cars like the 240z, Golf gti mk1, E-type, Elan, 911, Healey.

 

I personally don't see it as a bubble. The above factors are real and will be present as a demand push for some time yet. Until these factors change, I can't see a slow down in classic car prices.

 

I have made significant capital on my car collection - and will continue to add to the collection. I'm aware of risks - but I think they are small and manageable.



#73 gav240z

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 04:30 PM

Star of Orion at 50K?

 

http://www.carsales....AD-148161/?Cr=1

 

1616086.jpg

 

A tad optimistic perhaps? I don't think Starion's are there yet!



#74 dat2kman

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 08:27 PM

Looks like incorrect, not to mechanical secification Datsun Sports 200's are getting a bit f demand.
Shannons jst sold a wrong carbied, poor rear arch repaired model for $43.000 in !elbourne.
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#75 PB260Z

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 08:56 PM

Can't hurt to ask, afterall someone has set the new level.
Good Luck I say.

#76 gav240z

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 10:43 PM

Can't hurt to ask, afterall someone has set the new level.
Good Luck I say.

 

Even the widebody GSR's in Japan are about half that. So I suspect he might be waiting a while, having said that no harm in trying and perhaps someone really wants a mint Starion and is willing to pay over the odds for it? They are a cool car, just think he's about 10 years too early in price - that of course is just my opinion.



#77 gav240z

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 06:56 PM

Another article featuring the S30z.

http://www.ebay.com/...ic-sports-cars/


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#78 EJ101

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 09:27 PM

this bubble has pretty much made me give up on owning a 240Z. I've wanted one for several years but only in the last year and a half (since I bought my current house) have I seriously been looking because I finally found a house with a big double garage out the back and a double carport etc etc. Perfect for working on cars. But the house cost a fair bit more than anticipated plus I needed to spend some $$ on it and thus there were less dollars for a toy. Unfortunately in the last year and a half the popularity of the 240 has gone crazy as have the prices. If you do have a good one, like all other classics, it's safer to keep it locked up in the garage which is not what I want. I wanted one with a decent body, relatively rust free as I didn't want to spend thousands on rust repairs and I don't have the skill, patience or time to do that sort of work. I wanted to focus on the mechanicals. Engine with triples, good suspension and brakes, wheels. Just a nicely modified period looking car.

I recently almost had a 260 2 seater, but just as it was all but mine, the owner for a reason that still baffles me sold it right from under me, when in principle we'd had a deal. 

My first Z was a 280ZX 2 seater which I had from 1996 to 2002. I've naively thought about trying to find one of these, but they are as rare as rocking horse sh*t here and they are getting pricey in Japan and the USA.

Z31 300ZX might be the go. They're still affordable and the prices can only go up



#79 gav240z

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 09:36 PM

There was only a handful of S30z's and in particular 240z's to start with in Australia anyway. I'm surprised prices took this long to take off if I'm honest. I'd say you can still get what you want, but you have to look at importing from the US. Which has its own risks / rewards. Finding a car like you describe is very hard, I'd say you're better off building it, I know you say you don't want to spend hours working on it, but as Mick Jagger says "You can't always get what you want".

 

The 2+2 is also an option, cheaper and easier to find. I don't know why people overlook them to be honest. They look better than Z31s and Z32's in my opinion, not to mention being easier to maintain mechanically, cheaper to insure and cheaper on reg if going for Classic / Historic..

 

I wouldn't write off a 2+2 unless you have seen it in person. Photos don't always translate well.

 

Or what about an early RX-7? In my opinion still very under-valued.

Example:

http://bringatrailer...-rx-7-gsl-se-2/

 

Although I'm more partial to the early ones (series 1) with the earlier style dashboard. 13B Turbo in them and they would be weapon!



#80 Riceburner

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 10:37 PM

There may or may not be a bubble in classic cars at the moment but I expect it to trend to the richer side of society like most other luxuries in Australia. The Australian norm of home ownership is getting far further out of reach from the average income, I can only imagine what else will follow in the years to come.

 

With the price of houses, goods, services, the cost of living and the wage increases to keep up I only expect things to get much more out of hand.

 

Yes there's always the 2+2's on the cheaper side, but they lack in looks and performance compared to the original real Z's. Personally I don't mind them but they'll always have that '911 vs. boxter' stigma attached.

 

As for importing LHD cars I'm happy to be proven wrong but I would expect them to be worth very little here unless RHD conversions are available.

 

To me early Z's look fantastic, although not in the race. The Toyota 2000GT is miles ahead with daylight second, then followed by E-type Jags in third. 240z would be just in the top 10.

 

A Starion at 50K ;D  That's up there with that 120Y recently. Lol!






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