Jump to content


Photo

72 240Z Historic Group S


  • Please log in to reply
60 replies to this topic

#41 Gordo

Gordo

    The 1000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,068 posts
  • Location:Lillydale
  • Tagline:Racing member.

Posted 08 February 2016 - 05:50 PM

Nice work Hung Do.

#42 hmd

hmd

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 280 posts
  • Location:Melbourne Easts

Posted 08 February 2016 - 07:57 PM

Gordon,
I just need to find 10 seconds and some just to be close to your car
  • Gordo likes this

#43 dat2kman

dat2kman

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,033 posts
  • Location:Newport Waters Qld
  • Tagline:going sailing, see ya later!

Posted 08 February 2016 - 08:37 PM

Shouldaboughtmine,,,,,,!

#44 hmd

hmd

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 280 posts
  • Location:Melbourne Easts

Posted 09 February 2016 - 07:12 AM

Shouldaboughtmine,,,,,,!

So I can be 9 seconds slower ?



#45 dat2kman

dat2kman

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,033 posts
  • Location:Newport Waters Qld
  • Tagline:going sailing, see ya later!

Posted 09 February 2016 - 11:42 AM

So I can be 9 seconds slower ?


You're down in the 1.46's around Phillip Islamd now ?
Faster than all the Porkpies and the PantyTearers!
Bloody brilliant!

Will follw rgress on Natsoft for the Hstrics!

#46 TomC18

TomC18

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 121 posts
  • Location:Newport, Victoria
  • Tagline:Old Racer

Posted 09 February 2016 - 12:09 PM

Good to see Gordo got down to 1.46.5 vs 1.57.5 for Hung, what did the Group Sc car do there?



#47 hmd

hmd

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 280 posts
  • Location:Melbourne Easts

Posted 09 February 2016 - 12:15 PM

Good to see Gordo got down to 1.46.5 vs 1.57.5 for Hung, what did the Group Sc car do there?

 

Lap record for 2001-2600 cc car in Sc

 

The late Peter Hall.

 

 

Peter Hall Datsun 260Z 01:54.1  

 

http://www.groupsrac...laprecords.html

 

 

Tom, you need to pull your fingers out and get the Roadster into Group S.


Edited by hmd, 09 February 2016 - 12:15 PM.


#48 TomC18

TomC18

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 121 posts
  • Location:Newport, Victoria
  • Tagline:Old Racer

Posted 09 February 2016 - 12:22 PM

that's pretty quick, What about the 280Z?

 

my car's at the mercy of go-slow motors... have 2 engines coming along, a high revving 2litre for Sb and a monster for the Group T car, it's really sh##ting me.... I was trying to find a spare engine for a shake down run while i wait, but not too many keen donors



#49 hmd

hmd

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 280 posts
  • Location:Melbourne Easts

Posted 09 February 2016 - 12:26 PM

that's pretty quick, What about the 280Z?

 

Unfortunately the 280Z is in the 2601-3500cc and the lap record for that sub-category is

 

Geoff Morgan Porsche 911 01:47.8

#50 hmd

hmd

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 280 posts
  • Location:Melbourne Easts

Posted 10 February 2016 - 08:57 AM

You're down in the 1.46's around Phillip Islamd now ?

No, Gordo time is 1:46. 

 

I meant my car is 10+a bit slower than Gordo. Buying your car would just make that 9 sec slower than Gordo.


Edited by hmd, 10 February 2016 - 08:58 AM.

  • 260DET likes this

#51 dat2kman

dat2kman

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,033 posts
  • Location:Newport Waters Qld
  • Tagline:going sailing, see ya later!

Posted 10 February 2016 - 07:07 PM

that's pretty quick, What about the 280Z?
 
my car's at the mercy of go-slow motors... have 2 engines coming along, a high revving 2litre for Sb and a monster for the Group T car, it's really sh##ting me.... I was trying to find a spare engine for a shake down run while i wait, but not too many keen donors


Tom, the 280 Z has done 1.54.9 so pretty close to Pete's record.
Managed ( just!) over the years, 4th, a 5th and a 6th outright.
Not too shabby for an old fat vision imaired bloke, in a heavy car.

Because of the Group S "carry forward" thing, or whatever it s, all the Datsun Z cars are consdered as the same.
Ie the 280 is not in the same sub-category as the Porsches, but in the same sub class as 240/260Z.
Thats just a Group S Assciation thing, been setup like that for years.

At present, my car holds the Group S sub class lap record for all three Queensland circuits, and, as above, is just 0.8 of a second off the PI record, and, when I ran it at Winton Long, in 2012, it was 0.4 off that record.

In the right ( younger, bolder, capable) hands, it could quite easily go faster!
James Flett, is though, without doubt, king of the kids!

#52 hmd

hmd

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 280 posts
  • Location:Melbourne Easts

Posted 11 February 2016 - 12:37 PM

Because of the Group S "carry forward" thing, or whatever it s, all the Datsun Z cars are consdered as the same.
Ie the 280 is not in the same sub-category as the Porsches, but in the same sub class as 240/260Z.
Thats just a Group S Assciation thing, been setup like that for years.

 

I think you are more than a touch confused here. The 280Z is in group S is because it was produced between 1975-1978 280Z car made in 78 can be eligible because the model start in 1975. That is CAMS Sc category. (no carry forward thing from 240/260z).

 

The GSRA (Group S Racing Association) further sub-divide the class Sc into capacity subclass (see http://www.groupsrac...mpionship.html)

 


Sca up to 2000cc, Scb 2001cc to 2600cc, Scc 2601cc to 3500cc, Scd over 3501cc

 

 

So the 280Z IS IN the same sub-class Scc as the Porsche Carrera 2.7 and Porsche Carrera 3, Marcos 3L, BMW CS 3L, Ferrari 308.


Edited by hmd, 11 February 2016 - 12:38 PM.


#53 Cozza

Cozza

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 908 posts
  • Location:Sydney
  • Tagline:Datsun obsessed

Posted 11 February 2016 - 01:23 PM

So why do the GSRA show 2 independent 280z's to hold records for Scb lap times on their own website?

Attached Thumbnails

  • image.png
  • image.png


#54 hmd

hmd

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 280 posts
  • Location:Melbourne Easts

Posted 11 February 2016 - 01:45 PM

errors?

 

Look at Wayne Potts 280Z car last year, have all been classified in Scc.


Edited by hmd, 11 February 2016 - 01:46 PM.


#55 dat2kman

dat2kman

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,033 posts
  • Location:Newport Waters Qld
  • Tagline:going sailing, see ya later!

Posted 11 February 2016 - 02:52 PM

All the Datsun Z models are all in the same sub class within Sc.

Very similar also occurs in Historic Group N

What the Group S Association do NOT want to allw, is that a Datsun 240Z, which we all knw were produced, and started being commercially sold, in 1969, accepted into Group Sb
Which s for cars manufactured up until December 1969

Due to the mdel "carry on" rules, the 260Z amd the 280Z wouod likewaise be placed into Group Sb, and not group Sc.

With all this persnicketiness bullsh1t that goes on behing the scenes, it makes the freedoms f Historic Group T Sports Cars a lt more fun

Nw, watch ths space,,,,,
All f a sudden, the Group S Association will RE-WRITE their rules,,,,,,, yet once again!

#56 hmd

hmd

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 280 posts
  • Location:Melbourne Easts

Posted 11 February 2016 - 05:46 PM

All the Datsun Z models are all in the same sub class within Sc.

Very similar also occurs in Historic Group N

What the Group S Association do NOT want to allw, is that a Datsun 240Z, which we all knw were produced, and started being commercially sold, in 1969, accepted into Group Sb
Which s for cars manufactured up until December 1969

Due to the mdel "carry on" rules, the 260Z amd the 280Z wouod likewaise be placed into Group Sb, and not group Sc.

With all this persnicketiness bullsh1t that goes on behing the scenes, it makes the freedoms f Historic Group T Sports Cars a lt more fun

Nw, watch ths space,,,,,
All f a sudden, the Group S Association will RE-WRITE their rules,,,,,,, yet once again!

 

Jason,

 

Get your facts right.

 

1) The sub class are a group S Racing association thing AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN BASED ON CAPACITY within Sa, Sb, Sc.

AND Yes it is their rule and they can re-write it, in fact it has been changed in Sb before adding sub-classes and moving sub-classes.

Bottom line whatever the change they make the 280Z due to its capacity will be in in the same sub-class as the Carrera 2.7 or HIGHER.

 

2) The 'run on' (not carry on) CAMS rules are for the same model car that started on or before 1977. As I said the 280Z started production in 75 that's why its applicable, not because of the 240z or 260z whatsoever. Using your flawed logic you can run the 1989 Porsche Carrera 3.2 in group S. I'll give you an example of the Alfa Alfetta GTV the accepted year is up to 1981, in 1982 the model had a facelift (plastic bumper) same engine etc.. and these do not qualify. The 280Z has a 2.8 with EFI, it's is in CAMS view a distinctly different model to the 260Z as the 260Z is different to the 240Z.

 

3) There is a dispute to whether the 240Z and the 1969 Fairlady are different models, I wished I own a 1969 Fairlady and try to log that as an Sb and stick it up to CAMS.

 

Anyway please start 'I hate group S association and CAMS' thread. This is a car Journal.


  • 260DET likes this

#57 dat2kman

dat2kman

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,033 posts
  • Location:Newport Waters Qld
  • Tagline:going sailing, see ya later!

Posted 11 February 2016 - 06:09 PM

Hung, after a long conversation, many years ago, with Colin Wilson Brown, where he explained all Dato Z's are in SCb, because the bodyshell was unchanged, as t applied under GSRA.
The 2.7/3.0 Porsche's were a new body,
Same with Alfas,
The Dato Z carried the same body from end 69 to 78, hence Colin placing all the Z's in the Scb category
Save for the 2x200cc engine capacity increase, and the change from two carbs to single body injection, the Z, mechanically remained unchanged, thats the basic reason.

It's nt as ff we are geing over-run with Z's in Group S, and certainly not many 280Z's, but without the pissibility and encouragement to other potential new Z cars, including the slightly mre mdern version,, it just becomes Group Porsche.


Re the 1969 built 240Z mdel, we know they were being sold in December 69, but were not sold into the US and Australia until 1970
CAMS needs the GSRA to accept that they were sold in Japan, but this need written evidentiary proof, which s not available from Nssan
Even if it was the L20A six cylinder, the mdel run on would then have all Dato Z's in group Sb.

Cant have that now, can we!

#58 hmd

hmd

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 280 posts
  • Location:Melbourne Easts

Posted 11 February 2016 - 08:37 PM

Hung, after a long conversation, many years ago, with Colin Wilson Brown, where he explained all Dato Z's are in SCb, because the bodyshell was unchanged, as t applied under GSRA.
The 2.7/3.0 Porsche's were a new body,
Same with Alfas,
The Dato Z carried the same body from end 69 to 78, hence Colin placing all the Z's in the Scb category

Jason,

You really need to read the CAMS regs, it's not about the body, it's the model.
The Carrera 3 has the same body and engine as the 1978-1983 911 SC but these are not eligible as they are deemed different model.

You know more about cars and probably racing than I will ever do but the rules are very clear.

Same with the GSRA sub-class read the rule it's very clear it's based on capacity.

AGAIN please start another thread.

Edited by hmd, 11 February 2016 - 08:38 PM.


#59 hmd

hmd

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 280 posts
  • Location:Melbourne Easts

Posted 15 February 2016 - 02:16 PM

A lap against a Renault Megan RS.

 

Modern turbo 4wd with 235/40/18 tyres vs Classic L series and 19560/14 tyres.

 


Edited by hmd, 15 February 2016 - 02:16 PM.

  • 260DET likes this

#60 hmd

hmd

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 280 posts
  • Location:Melbourne Easts

Posted 23 December 2016 - 01:56 PM

A lap around PI a couple of weeks ago with the Alfa club.

 

 

https://youtu.be/Dyp6pUDQb8M






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users