Jump to content


Photo

What devalues a zed?


  • Please log in to reply
111 replies to this topic

#1 zzzzed

zzzzed

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,691 posts
  • Location:south australia

Posted 15 March 2015 - 07:59 PM

I know this may have been asked before. But what devalues a zed the most.
Would fitting flares devalue a 260z 2 seater? 
I think they would devalue a early 240z but would they have the same affect on a 2 seater?

Just thinking that's all.  ;D

#2 reverendzed

reverendzed

    The 1000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,717 posts
  • Location:Gold Coast QLD
  • Tagline:I'm Dave & Yes! I'm a real Revhead..er Reverend...

Posted 15 March 2015 - 08:17 PM

I can only talk from the small experience I have but I haven't experienced flares devaluing a 260, it's actually been the exact opposite.  Even the beautiful dark green 260z that I sold (I didn't cut the guards just flares and lowered on stiff springs) sold for a great price and then the guy took the flares off, had the guards welded and repainted.  I think changing stuff like weird taillights and sunroofs are the big problem.  I have found that most people who are buying higher priced Zeds are wanting nice looking, turn key investments.

Just my (albeit, limited experience)
Rev

#3 gav240z

gav240z

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 12,387 posts
  • Website:http://www.viczcar.com
  • Location:Sydney NSW
  • Tagline:Jack of all trades, master of none.

Posted 15 March 2015 - 08:20 PM

A bit of overlap below, but what I think and see is...

1. Non originality.
2. Previous owners and botched repairs.
3. Poor bodywork and poor body repairs. (bog rockets)
4. Engine swaps away from the L-Banger. Yes I went there...
5. Non original / or non period correct colours and hues.
6. Lack of attention to detail with restoration. I see this a lot, skimp on the small stuff etc..
7. Trying to make them into something they're not, which encompasses horrid body kits and aftermarket accessories.
8. Interior re-trim kits that don't retain the original look.
9. Sunroofs - those bloody big holes in the roof tin.

Adding flares to a 260z 2 seater? I don't know if 260z's are quite at the same desirability as 240z's in terms of collector value. I think a lot of people still want the 2 seater with ZG look with a front spoiler, 432-R rear wing, big rota's and a turbo straight 6. The kind of person who wants an early S30z (I would includes myself in this category) goes for a car that is as original looking at possible. Where as the later 260z crowd is more likely to be the "into stance", "big turbo's" demographic and therefore probably likes the flared look etc..

No doubt I managed to offend someone here....




#4 d3c0y

d3c0y

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,847 posts
  • Website:http://garagesanmaru.com
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Tagline:Forum Jerk

Posted 15 March 2015 - 09:22 PM

Non originality is really not one of them if you look at all the big dollar Zeds that have sold recently.

#5 zzzzed

zzzzed

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,691 posts
  • Location:south australia

Posted 15 March 2015 - 09:49 PM

I think as long as it's period mods. It's ok
In an early 240z I would want it to have a nice lightly
Modified l series with triples. Painted its original colour and a period set of alloys.  I am over big hp
Motors for road cars. They only get you in to trouble.
Leave the rest alone. A 260 2 seater I think the same but can go with the flares.

I think flares actually raise the value of a 2+2.


#6 dat240z

dat240z

    The 1000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,110 posts
  • Location:Canberra
  • Tagline:RB25det powered 240z - willwoods - coils - engineered

Posted 16 March 2015 - 05:18 AM

A bit of overlap below, but what I think and see is...

1. Non originality.
2. Previous owners and botched repairs.
3. Poor bodywork and poor body repairs. (bog rockets)
4. Engine swaps away from the L-Banger. Yes I went there...
5. Non original / or non period correct colours and hues.
6. Lack of attention to detail with restoration. I see this a lot, skimp on the small stuff etc..
7. Trying to make them into something they're not, which encompasses horrid body kits and aftermarket accessories.
8. Interior re-trim kits that don't retain the original look.
9. Sunroofs - those bloody big holes in the roof tin.

Adding flares to a 260z 2 seater? I don't know if 260z's are quite at the same desirability as 240z's in terms of collector value. I think a lot of people still want the 2 seater with ZG look with a front spoiler, 432-R rear wing, big rota's and a turbo straight 6. The kind of person who wants an early S30z (I would includes myself in this category) goes for a car that is as original looking at possible. Where as the later 260z crowd is more likely to be the "into stance", "big turbo's" demographic and therefore probably likes the flared look etc..

No doubt I managed to offend someone here....


Im in trouble then  :o, luckily I never plan to sell the z........

#7 Triptych

Triptych

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 348 posts
  • Location:Brisbane, QLD
  • Tagline:77 GS30

Posted 16 March 2015 - 06:35 AM

Steering wheel on the left hand side........

I think as what was mentioned it comes down to the model. My personal view point is and the way I plan to build my cars (I currently only have a 2+2 but hope for a 240z in the future);

240z: Interior keep stock just freshen up, Period correct looking bucket seats are fine. Exterior is basic mods that can be easily reversed (no cutting the guards for flairs etc) just basically some nice wheels (simmons, watanabe, panasport etc) but no larger than 16", front lip and rear spoiler if you wish. Engine wise just some triple carbs, slightly bigger cam and a nice exhaust should do it.

260z: Well this is the race car base. Flairs, spoilers, larger wheels (17" is fine as its easier to get wider wheels for). Basically do what you wish with it but personally I would prefer to keep the engine swap within the L series and just mod the hell out of it.

260z 2+2: Do whatever you want

#8 Lurch ™

Lurch ™

    Curator of the 'Gavin Collection'

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,602 posts
  • Location:Victoria
  • Tagline:In my Den of Rust & Sin

Posted 16 March 2015 - 06:41 AM

Paint it Safari Gold.

#9 zzzzed

zzzzed

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,691 posts
  • Location:south australia

Posted 16 March 2015 - 07:01 AM

Good one lurch. You always have to good answers ::) ;D

People keep saying cutting the guards can't be reversed.
That is far from true. You can buy the outer and inner arches from
MSA.

#10 Triptych

Triptych

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 348 posts
  • Location:Brisbane, QLD
  • Tagline:77 GS30

Posted 16 March 2015 - 07:39 AM

I never saw the MSA parts. I did see you can get full rear quarters from Japan but I think they are FG.

#11 zzzzed

zzzzed

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,691 posts
  • Location:south australia

Posted 16 March 2015 - 09:10 AM

I never saw the MSA parts. I did see you can get full rear quarters from Japan but I think they are FG.


On this page mate
http://www.thezstore...Y/classic02o03c

#12 gav240z

gav240z

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 12,387 posts
  • Website:http://www.viczcar.com
  • Location:Sydney NSW
  • Tagline:Jack of all trades, master of none.

Posted 16 March 2015 - 09:24 AM

TABCO manufacturers a lot of stuff.
https://tabcoparts.c...-1970-1978.html

#13 zzzzed

zzzzed

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,691 posts
  • Location:south australia

Posted 16 March 2015 - 09:29 AM

Thanx for that gav.

#14 gav240z

gav240z

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 12,387 posts
  • Website:http://www.viczcar.com
  • Location:Sydney NSW
  • Tagline:Jack of all trades, master of none.

Posted 16 March 2015 - 09:33 AM

Im in trouble then  :o, luckily I never plan to sell the z........


I knew some would read into my post the wrong way. I'm not saying customisation is wrong, but from a collector perspective and arguably a collector is where the most value would come at time of sale, the safest way to retain value is to stay as original as possible.

Of course if you took my post literally an engine swap to an S20 power plant would also devalue an S30z, since it's not an L-series engine. ;) Bloody skyline motors! :).

To somewhat prove my point...

1. http://www.carsales....D-2694715/?Cr=0

a. Non original colour
b. Non period correct wheels
c. Custom interior

Is it a bad car? Absolutely not, even though the owner probably spent more than asking price on it's full restoration. I suspect if it had a more original theme and a slightly lower price tag it would have sold a while ago. But it's been sitting there for years!

2. http://www.carsales....D-3239760/?Cr=1

a. The paint colour is not going to appease everyone.
b. Non period wheels
c. 300zx seats

Is it a bad car? From memory it was very straight and clean. The restoration appears to have held up. The custom touches though are hurting it's true potential in terms of value (just my opinion). I suspect it will be listed for a while. But I of course could be wrong.



#15 gav240z

gav240z

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 12,387 posts
  • Website:http://www.viczcar.com
  • Location:Sydney NSW
  • Tagline:Jack of all trades, master of none.

Posted 16 March 2015 - 09:38 AM

Good one lurch. You always have to good answers ::) ;D

People keep saying cutting the guards can't be reversed.
That is far from true. You can buy the outer and inner arches from
MSA.


Yeah Lurch isn't a fan of Safari Gold, he likes it when all S30z's are painted red the fastest most original colour ;).

We all know anything can be reversed, it's just a matter of how hard it is. I'd say fixing cut fenders is up there with sunroof repairs in terms of difficulty and expense. Front guards not a big deal, rear a slightly different matter. You have to also repaint the areas and match the paint. Harder to do with some paint colours and older paint jobs etc..

For anyone without your skills mate it's not that easy ;). And let's face it a lot of S30z / Classic car enthusiasts are scared to tackle body work.

#16 zzzzed

zzzzed

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,691 posts
  • Location:south australia

Posted 16 March 2015 - 11:39 AM

Yeh I forgot not every one is a welder gav  :P

#17 dat240z

dat240z

    The 1000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,110 posts
  • Location:Canberra
  • Tagline:RB25det powered 240z - willwoods - coils - engineered

Posted 16 March 2015 - 11:42 AM

I knew some would read into my post the wrong way. I'm not saying customisation is wrong, but from a collector perspective and arguably a collector is where the most value would come at time of sale, the safest way to retain value is to stay as original as possible.

Of course if you took my post literally an engine swap to an S20 power plant would also devalue an S30z, since it's not an L-series engine. ;) Bloody skyline motors! :).

To somewhat prove my point...

1. http://www.carsales....D-2694715/?Cr=0

a. Non original colour
b. Non period correct wheels
c. Custom interior

Is it a bad car? Absolutely not, even though the owner probably spent more than asking price on it's full restoration. I suspect if it had a more original theme and a slightly lower price tag it would have sold a while ago. But it's been sitting there for years!

2. http://www.carsales....D-3239760/?Cr=1

a. The paint colour is not going to appease everyone.
b. Non period wheels
c. 300zx seats

Is it a bad car? From memory it was very straight and clean. The restoration appears to have held up. The custom touches though are hurting it's true potential in terms of value (just my opinion). I suspect it will be listed for a while. But I of course could be wrong.


Relax little fella... I didnt "read into your post incorrectly" I simply replied to your comment. No harm done.

#18 44014

44014

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 817 posts
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Tagline:Garage San Maru

Posted 16 March 2015 - 11:43 AM

The only zeds I have seen sell for good money are modified ones.
The highest prices recently I have Seen are 260z 2 seaters?
Can anyone show me a stock original 240Z that has sold for more then 30k that is not a special edition? IE 432 or had a 200k restoration?
IMO people will pay for a car that is done right.. flares, good suspension ,good engine package ( I don't think engine conversions devalue a car in the slightest ) and its just about making the car look right.
Jake and myself spend a lot of time ( and obscene amount of money )making sure we get the right parts and do research into making things look right.
And I'm sure when my 20B takes the place of the L28ET im 100% certain that the market that would buy my car would go into the single digits percentage wise but would it devalue it?...I don't think so.

Cheers Doug


#19 d3c0y

d3c0y

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,847 posts
  • Website:http://garagesanmaru.com
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Tagline:Forum Jerk

Posted 16 March 2015 - 11:56 AM

Gav I think you have a specific idea of what you are regarding as modified which probably differs to what others (including myself) have. Tasteful modification is a completely different kettle of fish to me.


Both of those cars have very 90s modification points about them which i think detract from it as they are not timeless.


This is a modified car and what I regard as tastefully modified which I believe increases the value every day of the week. I also believe that when paired with a highly modified motor it will increase the value further.


Posted Image










#20 cracker

cracker

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 413 posts
  • Website:http://www.blocproperty.com.au
  • Location:Adelaide
  • Tagline:James

Posted 16 March 2015 - 12:20 PM

Without actually listing sales, surely it is currently a reasonable widely accepted fact that the earlier cars are more valuable and more likely to grow in value, and in those cases originality is paramount to achieving a high price. I have heard of any early 240z (non-special edition) selling privately from Melbourne for $100k-ish and going to Japan, and recently saw an early 240z sell in Adelaide for $10k with rust and accident damage that apparently went straight to Japan also. The recent good prices for lightly modified zeds seen on this site are still some way from those dollars.

Because the 260z's are viewed as slightly inferior on a collector level, the glass ceiling that currently applies itself to values allows for things like flares, because of the demographic of the buyer. I think a similar concept would apply to a late 240z also.

There is a level of subjectivity in my post but I'm trying to remain unbiased as possible. I am a bit of a purist (now) but 5 years ago I wanted to buy a 2 seater and cut it up and put flares on it. I wouldn't dare do that to my late 240z now, even though my theory above suggests that I'd get away with it. The market will of course change and I suspect the collectability of late 240s and 260 2 seaters will increase, and as such the price. Eventually, flares on these cars will devalue them as they would an early 240z now. But now I'm speculating, which is very much subjective, but.. history is the best evidence of all.

Ultimately it is the supply and demand and these forces are created by all of us that own and transact in these cars. So each opinion counts towards what is desirable and what is not at any given price level.

To get back on the topic at hand - Mick, I think flares are fine at the moment, but personally I would remove them and weld in new guards if I were to ever sell. If that isn't a viable solution then I wouldn't install flares to begin with.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users