Brakes upgrades ideas on a 260Z

[NZeder]

So does anybody have any ideas for larger rear brakes without going to a 5 stud conversion? I don't have the handbrake connected anyway so that isn't a concern.

 

If I were you I would start looking over a downloaded copy of the DBA catalog (available from their website). given you have a R31 caliper mounting bracket already you can just make a bracket for whatever caliper you choice to run ie a wilwood or something that you can get better pads for or choice something like a Commodore/Falcon PBR type caliper that you can get the pads you need. Given you don't have a handbrake you have many many options going down this path. Pick a front rotor or rear rotor with the size/offset and solid or vented that you want then match the caliper to that. You can redrill any 5x114.3 rotor ie Falcon, Toyota, Nissan 300zx/200sx etc to 4x 114.3 with easy or chose a rotor from a car that already has 4x114.3 ie Mits VR4, EVO I II or III, then most Nissan FWD if using 4 are 4x114.3 too.

 

The other option is (however this does not help with you pad problem) is use a 300zx rear rotor (larger than R31) then get the 300zx rear caliper bracket and put this on the existing R31 caliper = mounts the caliper higher for the larger 290mm rotor vs the R31 260mm. For the PAD issue visit a race brake shop and see if they can rivet on some good material on to your stock backing plates.

[nat0_240_chevZ]

get vented rears, also i asuume the honda rotors are vented,

 

JUST RUN AIR DUCTING INTO THE BACK OF THE ROTORs!!!!!

 

Golden rule is airflow, cant cool them when you dont have airflow!!!!

Rears dont get alot of abuse, even in racing, 80% of the cars load is on the fromt in an aggressive racing stop..

 

AIR DUCTS!!!! try it first before any mods and post your results please this will be an interesting thread from then on!!!!

 

 

nato

[PZG302]

The brakes I run on my 240Z have no problems pulling the car up on the track.

 

Front are Wilwood 4 spot calipers mounted to a fbricated bracket with TP Magna rotors. Pads are Hawke Carbon Metallic. The set up, apart from the calipers was cheap and I replace the rotors about every 20 race meetings and the pads after about 6 or so. The carbon metallic pads a re pretty savage on the rotors, but the rotors are nice and cheap.

 

The rear brakes are Saab claipers and solid rotors and were a straight bolt on. The pads are a hard road pad and I have yet to worry about the rotor and the pads last about three seasons.

 

The car also runs an unboosted 1" master cylinder and steel braided lines. The bias is as per standard and if I do lock up, unless a wheel is unweighted, all 4 wheels will lock at once.

 

If you want I can get the part numbers, but this will take some time as I am in Brisbane and the car is in Sydney.

[nat0_240_chevZ]

yep, im interested, mostly in the rears, have not heard of the saab upgrade!!!

 

which willoods you use?? superlite 4 pots or integra 4 pots??? or other?

 

cheers nat0

[twosixty]

I'd also be interested in the details.

 

Anything tricky with the handbrake?

 

Luke

[Scando]

Thanks for the info PZG302.

 

I'm leaning towards R32 GTS-T rear callipers and find a 4 stud disc to work with them or re-drill R32 discs. I only have a proportioning valve to the rear not a proper pedal box with a balance bar so I don't want to go too big on the rear or I think I'll have problems with locking.

 

The other thing I'm trying to find out is what brakes series 4/5 RX7's have on the rear. I figure if I could get them to fit they should work well together with the fronts.

 

Nato, I will be putting some ducting into the rear before I use the car next but it's hard with the rears to find somewhere with decent airflow.

[sco_aus]

Some of the R32 models Skylines mainly early and non turbo were released with 4x114.3 patterns, so that might be a much easier way than redrilling 5 stud disks.

[Scando]

Yeah, the ones that were 4 stud use smaller discs and callipers though. It's a pitty cause otherwise they would be a good conversion.

[sco_aus]

ahh ok. R31 GTS maybe? Im pretty sure they had larger brakes (probly R32 stock brakes )

[NZeder]

ahh ok. R31 GTS maybe? Im pretty sure they had larger brakes (probly R32 stock brakes )

Sorry checking DBA catalogues shows that the R31 your local or imported models be they GTS or not have the 260mm by 10.5mm with 47mm total hat = small not much improvement over the drums with good pads/shoes.

 

R32's run a bigger rear at 297 x 18 vented with 63mm hat these have an internal drum for the handbrake that is 172mm in size. The problem is keeping the internal handbrake drum with this setup as with the 63mm hat you run out of room for the internal drum backing plate mounting - well with some engineering it could work and in fact I believe Stewart Wilkins Motorsport is working on a solution for this setup on the rear of a zed.

 

Can you tell I have been looking into this stuff too - I have a plan and once I complete the test fitting etc I will post a write up on the setup I will be moving to. But lets say this - so far it has been a simple process and the plan is to the following size rear brakes.

 

302mm x 22mm vented with an internal drum in hat handbrake setup that has the cable in the factory location (still working on the leaver setup not sure if I will change the leaver of the donor brake parts or have my hand brake cable ends remade or make a conversion plate thing) also the chosen rotor is from a new model car so I am still waiting for the aftermarket rotor manufacture to release the product....June is what I have been told....

[nat0_240_chevZ]

ahh ok. R31 GTS maybe? Im pretty sure they had larger brakes (probly R32 stock brakes )

Sorry checking DBA catalogues shows that the R31 your local or imported models be they GTS or not have the 260mm by 10.5mm with 47mm total hat = small not much improvement over the drums with good pads/shoes.

 

R32's run a bigger rear at 297 x 18 vented with 63mm hat these have an internal drum for the handbrake that is 172mm in size. The problem is keeping the internal handbrake drum with this setup as with the 63mm hat you run out of room for the internal drum backing plate mounting - well with some engineering it could work and in fact I believe Stewart Wilkins Motorsport is working on a solution for this setup on the rear of a zed.

 

Can you tell I have been looking into this stuff too - I have a plan and once I complete the test fitting etc I will post a write up on the setup I will be moving to. But lets say this - so far it has been a simple process and the plan is to the following size rear brakes.

 

302mm x 22mm vented with an internal drum in hat handbrake setup that has the cable in the factory location (still working on the leaver setup not sure if I will change the leaver of the donor brake parts or have my hand brake cable ends remade or make a conversion plate thing) also the chosen rotor is from a new model car so I am still waiting for the aftermarket rotor manufacture to release the product....June is what I have been told....

 

NZEDDER, i do believe i have seen a young fellow in japan using an r34 rear brake setup, he just welded in some stiffer tabs to bolt up to and it sit perfectly behind the 240z/260z stubs etc, it was a while ago but ill see if my mate has the link or pics he copys from everywhere, unless someone else wants to chime in

 

This r34 setup is the single most attractive rear brake swap i have ever seen!! uses factory handbrake cable etc etc, drum park brake and bigass rear rotors and calipers, i do believe they are also brembo's, (Brembo = AWF, AWF = added w*nk factor!!! lol)

 

nato

[NZeder]

I know of the link - and I believe he has now changed his site so you can't see those pics/write-up from outside of Japan now

 

What he had done was this.

 

Used a Subie backing plate the none R180 rear end units which have the 190mm internal drum setup but the one that share the same size internal drum as the Nissan's 174mm. Then he machined up a 8mm spacer that was pressed onto the 260z stub axles before the first bearing thus pushing the stub out 8mm = clearance for the 63mm hat of the R34 rotor - can you tell I have done a fair bit if learning reading - research on this topic :wink: Anyway his result was a internal drum setup using a redrilled nissan R34 rotor and the subie backing plate (not sure got lots in the translation but he may have replace the subie backing plate when he upgraded to this setup as his first setup did not require the spacer or have a vented rotor) but the result was a 297mm by 18mm vented rotor with the required 68mm center hole for spigot location and a 63mm total hat offset.

 

So I started from there but my setup does not currently involve a spacer behind the stub axles as I did not like the idea if you look at the shape of the stub axles it has places the bearing to seat but you have now moved these 8mm away = 8mm less lock down of the nut etc. My engineering side of me just said there has to be a different setup and there is. But as I stated this is still in development so I don't want to give too much away at this point in case it is wrong then other waste time and $$ on parts. But as stated it is so far a very simple engineering task and using common parts here in NZ and AU = all good for us.

 

More to follow in the coming weeks I am just trying to get the rotors sorted now once I do and test fit I will begin to let the cat out of the bag with photos etc (which I have not taken yet)

 

Regards

Mike

 

EDIT: Just spend some time looking over the drum specs and the common rear disc conversions and you will soon see the problem. But most rear disc conversions on the zed involve a caliper with handbrake build-in and either 280zx (series II), R31 or 300zx rotors (4 stud = no machine work) all of these have 47mm hats. Now the stock drum has a total height of 67mm (this includes the dust lip) the stock backing plates are not flat either they move back form the mounting face to make room. Now the path I am heading down looks like (on paper to all work out fine give or take 0.5mm = the drum dust lip can be machined down this far if need be) it will work out fine. Now I am sure other parts might have been used with the same result but I went this way other might find different solution but we will not know until someone tries it :wink:

 

Enough of that for now - sitting on my PC does get this done any sooner - time to go out to the garage again and do some more measuring and tinkering.

[24OZ]

couple of other options i've used for front brake improvements.....

 

VT commodore discs(redrilled to 114.3x4 to slip over the Z hubs/longer wheelstuds,need the hubs machined for an interferance fit with the hole in the commodore disc to keep it perfectly centred) used with VT calipers(nice big aluminium ones,need to weld up the original alloy mounting holes and redrill to suit the Z caliper mounts)then bolt on,offset increases by width of disc as it fits over the original hub....hve to use 15" wheels ,new discs and pads worth $100 from supacheap autos any day of the week and a snap to change once the wheel is off!!

 

Valiant discs and calipers,about 1976/8 ?VH ?model,preferably with new DBA discs undrilled so you can drill to suit 114.3x4,only mod to fit otherwise is to enlarge the hole in the centre of the disc or machine the hub to fit inside the disc...rest bolts up/on

 

XF falcon discs and TE/F cortina calipers,machine down the discs in diameter to fit under the bolted up cortina calipers,wheel stud pattern redrill or get new DBA discs undrilled

 

all above need the 15/16" 280zx master cylinder....if it's an early 240Z you may need to reverse the f/r lines that go to the m/c

 

all above has worked for me,no guarantees given and no liability accepted

:?

[nat0_240_chevZ]

VT commodore discs(redrilled to 114.3x4 to slip over the Z hubs/longer wheelstuds' date='need the hubs machined for an interferance fit with the hole in the commodore disc to keep it perfectly centred) [/quote']

 

well you dont need an interferance fit, as such. oem zeds are slightly int fit but dba replacements are a transition fit, meaning they can pop in but mating surfaces have to be clean for this.

 

but otherwise very informative info im sure some of the guys will appreciate it.

 

also i know of a chrysler (voyager if my mem serves me right) rotor with just a spacer in the stock Z caliper with hydraulic ports in the spacer etc, works really well, no m/cyl upgrade needed. but stock wheels dont fint etc

 

bmw old 525 rotors with either hilux 4 pots or stock calliper relieved for width 0.5-1mm per side.

 

nato.

[24OZ]

thanks nat0,

just meant it's got to be tighter than a c*ck in a sock............well mine anyway :shock:

[XRQTR]

So how would a 4 pot r33 set up go then??

 

would it bolt straight up to the front at least??

 

the rear I can play with at a later date.

 

cheers

Stef

[zr240]

r33 4 pot definatly doesnt fit the zed. Got a set with my r33 half cut and tried and its miles off

 

Ash

[scoot3r42]

the r31 gts imports have bigger rear disc then the ozzy ones and they also use the r200 diff so mounting would be very easy