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What trigger to use for aftermarket ecu


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#1 Z.

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:31 PM

Just looking for some advice on what to use as a trigger (eg crank angle sensor) for an aftermarket ecu on my '79 NA zx? I've heard you don't need to install anything and can apparently run it off the stock NA dizzy.. any downsides to doing this? How to do I do this?

This is for a budget build so I was looking at the much debated megasquirts system but I am open to any other options if anyone has any suggestions. Preferably trying to get it below 1k for the ecu install.

Advice/suggestion much appreciated. Cheers gents.

#2 gav240z

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:28 PM

I believe the turbo ZX had a CAS distributor set up which you can use as a trigger for aftermarket ECUs.

They look like this:
http://forums.ctzcc....opic.php?t=5784
http://www.the510rea...tart=15#p203487

Zshop recently sold 1 on eBay.
http://www.ebay.com....n-/281323802960

The only downside I can think of is the fact that it's still a mechanical set up and that can have slop in it if/when it wears.

Most modern cars no longer have a distributor with a shaft to drive it. They fire off a sensor - which is all set up electronically.

Still a good bang for buck set up. If I go fuel injected throttle bodies on my cars I'd definitely look at this.


#3 Jason89

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:32 PM

You can use the standard hall effect sensor but you wont be able to run sequential injection or multi coil as it doesn't have a tdc or home reference.
Ive used an rb30 optical sensor in a 280zx distributor housing and it worked quiet well. Tight fit though.

#4 Zedman240®

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:15 AM

Im running a L28T distributor just for the crank angle sensor. You will need to replace the oil spindle drive as they use a tongue/spline drive which doesn't really have any slop in it. Easy to swap and so far very reliable..

#5 Z.

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 03:25 PM

I didnt realise the na zx also had a cas although that does make sense because it needs something for its stock ecu. Yeah I have seen a few people running the turbo dizzy to get the better CAS. Just not suite how easy it is to find one of these but I'll keep my eyes open. Cheers Gav and Zedman

Thanks for the info Jason. I'm curious how you put the rb30 cas on the dizzy shaft? Was it hard to do? I can get a rb30 cas easy and I would preferably like to be able to run a wasted spark ignition system so a cas with a home mark would be preferable

#6 Zedman240®

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 03:29 PM

Thanks for the info Jason. I'm curious how you put the rb30 cas on the dizzy shaft? Was it hard to do? I can get a rb30 cas easy and I would preferably like to be able to run a wasted spark ignition system so a cas with a home mark would be preferable


I know Lindsay at Zshop has quite a few of the 280ZXT dizzies... all you need to do before installation is drill a 1/8th hole in the trigger disc and you have your #1 signal.

#7 Jason89

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:36 PM

Grab a rb30 distributor from the wreckers, pull both apart and youll see how it goes, the side of the distributor body had to be cut out for the plug of the sensor, locked up the shaft, held the wheel on with a grub screw. It was a while ago i cant really give any more specific details. The pic will help.

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#8 Z.

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 01:03 PM

Grab a rb30 distributor from the wreckers, pull both apart and youll see how it goes, the side of the distributor body had to be cut out for the plug of the sensor, locked up the shaft, held the wheel on with a grub screw. It was a while ago i cant really give any more specific details. The pic will help.

Well You've definitely got me interested! Especially because I can get one so cheap and this is a budget build so I think I'll give this a crack and see how it goes. Cheers

I know Lindsay at Zshop has quite a few of the 280ZXT dizzies... all you need to do before installation is drill a 1/8th hole in the trigger disc and you have your #1 signal.

Thanks man! if the rb30 cas looks like it's too hard to bodge up I'll go suss a zxt dizzy off Lindsay.

#9 my_mad_z

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 04:14 PM

I'm running a megasquirt II in my Z and it's been an absolute pleasure to tune! I ordered my MSII back in 2005 and put it together, made the loom, installed it in the Z and haven't looked back since.

Initially I was using the NA 280ZX dizzy and configured the MSII to a VR setup and it worked quite well. I ended up buying a 1983 turbo 280ZX dizzy from Lindsay and upgraded to that (came with the correct shaft but I don't think he has any of these left) - changed the settings of the MSII to suit and it works well.

With the 280ZX NA dizzy, I had to set the dizzy in place and lock the mechanical advance; don't have to do this with the turbo version. The MSII won't do sequential injection but the MS3 does; I converted a friend of mine to megasquirt, installed it in his 240Z that runs a charged 383 chev and he loves it.

I purchased a copy of the full version of Tuner Studio's - has built in auto-tune that works a treat.

I know some people don't rate the megasquirt, but I swear by it! It does everything I need it to do and all at a very reasonable cost! There is a step by step build on the system for a 280ZX that tells you how to set up the MSII here: https://www.diyautot...280zx_turbo.htm

Marc.

#10 Z.

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 10:00 PM

I'm running a megasquirt II in my Z and it's been an absolute pleasure to tune! I ordered my MSII back in 2005 and put it together, made the loom, installed it in the Z and haven't looked back since.

Initially I was using the NA 280ZX dizzy and configured the MSII to a VR setup and it worked quite well. I ended up buying a 1983 turbo 280ZX dizzy from Lindsay and upgraded to that (came with the correct shaft but I don't think he has any of these left) - changed the settings of the MSII to suit and it works well.

With the 280ZX NA dizzy, I had to set the dizzy in place and lock the mechanical advance; don't have to do this with the turbo version. The MSII won't do sequential injection but the MS3 does; I converted a friend of mine to megasquirt, installed it in his 240Z that runs a charged 383 chev and he loves it.

I purchased a copy of the full version of Tuner Studio's - has built in auto-tune that works a treat.

I know some people don't rate the megasquirt, but I swear by it! It does everything I need it to do and all at a very reasonable cost! There is a step by step build on the system for a 280ZX that tells you how to set up the MSII here: https://www.diyautot...280zx_turbo.htm

Marc.

Thanks for the info Marc! I might hit you up for some help when I get around to installing it if you don't mind?

#11 Riceburner

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 05:24 PM

Could this RB30 hybrid dizzy be used to trigger edis on a carbed setup? Has anyone else done this mod or got more info on it?
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#12 datozed

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:42 PM

hi  im running 280zx turbo dist fitted with the disc out of rb 30 dist. it will swap in with out any mods. this will give you no1 home signal. ;) with this you can now run sequential inj etc .
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#13 Jason89

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:56 PM

Could this RB30 hybrid dizzy be used to trigger edis on a carbed setup? Has anyone else done this mod or got more info on it?


Im pretty sure the edis uses a 36-1 trigger wheel with a 2 wire vr sensor. The rb30 sensor is completely different. 

#14 gav240z

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Posted 21 December 2015 - 02:31 PM

Hi Guys,

 

Thread revival, just wondering what options there a for running a CAS electronic ignition set up without a full blown aftermarket ECU wired up? I have a 280zx E12-80 module in my 72 240z but think it needs recurving to suit my motor. In order to run a CAS set up do I need to convert to using an ECU like megasquirt? Not sure if this is a dumb question or not but is there a modular based approach you can use, since I'll still be running carbs? 


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#15 Jason89

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 06:27 AM

Jaycar make a kit for a programmable ignition timing module. If you already have elec ignition that should be all you need. It uses the same hand controller as the closed loop boost controller which ive used before, but i cant really tell you much about the timing module.

#16 gav240z

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 12:54 PM

So I saw that JayCar set up.

http://www.jaycar.co...on-Kit/p/KC5513

http://www.jaycar.co...Driver/p/KC5443

 

Both say refer to Silicon Chip Magazine November and December 2012, I'm a bit out of my depth with this stuff but would like to learn.

 

I see some people talking about locking out the vacuum advance set up and relying on the electronic set up for timing, but I wonder how that works in a mechanical distributor? Because the mechanical advance pulls the assembly to forward or back to advance / retard timing, so I'm wondering how you can lock it out and still achieve advance / retard timing when you are relying on the physical position of an object?

 

Not sure if I'm explaining this correctly or not?

 

Times like this I wish I paid more attention in electronics classes back in my University days (but it was nearly 10 years ago now) so I've forgotten a lot of stuff ;).



#17 Jason89

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 08:59 PM

Lock the distributor by tacking it with a welder or bolting something in place of the springs or weights. I get what you mean, the amount of timing advance is determined by the ignition map programed in the module. The cas pickup either optical or hall effect will need to be dialed in with the rotorbutton so that when it fires at full advance or full retard it still lines up with the pole of the distributor cap without going too far off the end of the rotor.

#18 Six_Shooter

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 03:20 PM

Hi Guys,

 

Thread revival, just wondering what options there a for running a CAS electronic ignition set up without a full blown aftermarket ECU wired up? I have a 280zx E12-80 module in my 72 240z but think it needs recurving to suit my motor. In order to run a CAS set up do I need to convert to using an ECU like megasquirt? Not sure if this is a dumb question or not but is there a modular based approach you can use, since I'll still be running carbs? 


Well there's a few things to decide on first before going any farther.

Do you want to retain a dizzy, just with improved timing control?

Do you want to run a distributerless setup? 

Will you ever maybe, might want to go full blown EFI on the future?

If you just want an ignition controller, look up the Megajolt. It's an ignition controller that can be used with a dizzy or distributorless ignition systems. It requires several inputs, that are similar to an EFI system, such as TPS, MAP, coolant temp and of course some form of RPM/crank trigger input. For a dizzy based system you can use something as simple as the stock N/A dizzy of a '75+ 260Z (280Z in the US), that used an electronic ignition, I believe that some or all '74s were this way as well. This has 6 tabs that coincide with each cylinder at TDC, to fire the coil. This type of sensor can be used to trigger many aftermarket ignition control and ECUs. It's not high resolution, but is good enough for most applications in my experience.

A wasted spark system can be run with only a simple crank trigger that has a home reference (no cam sensor needed), you can use something as simple a a 6+1 wheel, or for more resolution a 36-1 wheel which can be bought off the shelf from places such as DIYAutotune.com, but I'm sure there's Australian suppliers as well, or make your own wheel.

If you want to go to sequential ignition a cam sensor would also be needed.

If you ever think that in the future you might just maybe go to EFI, then you can run most aftermarket ECUs as ignition control only, a MegaSquirt can do this.



#19 EJ101

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 04:38 PM

back when I had my 280ZX 2 seater a Series 4/5 Mazda RX7 unit replaced the dizzy as it had the CAS in it.

some minor mods required to make it fit

 

with dizzy

 

_20151023_204526.JPG

 

without

 

_20151023_204816.JPG

 

IMG_20151023_203519798.jpg

 

RX7 CAS unit. Not exactly sure what they're called

 

N326-18-230Detail.jpg


Edited by EJ101, 26 December 2015 - 04:48 PM.





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