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Going to Lakeside tomorrow - hard or soft suspension setting?


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#41 PZG302

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 09:24 AM

Second hands slicks that are cheaper than second hand semis are generally that cheap for a reason.

Unless they are froma  top tier team in a national series and you know the use the slicks have had then they are a real lottery in what you would get.

I used to run Porsche cup tyres on my zed and will on the S14, but will only buy them from one or two sources and in bulk to ensure I get a good price and good tyres. In doing this I can afford to throw them away after one sprint meeting. For enduro type events I will be buying new slicks.

You would be better off going to a state round and and talking to the IPRA guys, most are using 15" yokis and the ones chasing the sheep stations will be turning over their tyres pretty often so you will get cheap tyres with some life left, again it is best to chase down someone who will have a fair quantity of tyres.

As Richard said for you want the Achillies semis would be a good compromise, a cheap buy in for new and they will be consistent. They won't be as fast as the gun tyres, but then you don't have the suspension adjustment or knowledge and skill to get the best out of them yet. Once you know what you want to do then you will be able to make an informed choice that won't see you throwing money away.

#42 dat2kman

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 10:00 AM

Look at the date on manufacture stamp, it'll be a four digit number, first two are the year, second two are the week in that year.
On slicks, semis, road tyres, the lot.
Ie
1034
Is  year 2010, in the 34th week.
If looking at slicks, the dimples/holes ( about 3mm diam) new, are  usually 4mm deep..
Choose the latest date, and deepest dimples.

I think your uncle runs a 3 series BMW, ask him to ask his BMW mates for some of their s/hand semis, majorityare on 15" rims, hence the larger qty of 15" rubber out there

Gregg Quince ( mx5 club) was offering up 4x near new kumho slicks, approx 1 year old, at $700 they'd be worth looking at.
Oh, and the words "cheap" and "motorspirt" do not work with each other


#43 grimlynsan

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 09:17 AM

Thank you all for this useful advice! The Yokis I ran on yesterday were manufactured in 2008, which would explain why they were so cheap, and also had considerably less grip than did my street tyres or so it seemed. They were quite skittish I thought.

I reckon I have another couple of outings left on them; given their age, do you think it's worth applying softener and wrapping until next meet?

I got some times I was happy with and people were generally complimentary about the car's abilities...I was fairly rubbish!

I got a 107.3 on the Clubman which I was very happy with, despite being 2 seconds slower than d3c0y's 350Z.

And I got a 103.8 on the Sprint Circuit.

The track was wet in the morning which was quite unnerving going out but by late morning it was all dried out.

We did all four options throughout the day and while I did enjoy some of the configurations with the left/right combinations which were more of a challenge, it doesn't compare to Lakeside which is up hill and down dale, off camber, bite-you-in-the-ar$e if you're not paying attention driving!

Hopefully I am able to participate non-competitively in the final round of the Z competition at Morgan Park later this year so I can give that a go too, before committing to any series etc down the track.

I have to say, my favourite thing about the day was overtaking Beemer after Beemer! Oh, and of course catching up with fellow forum members!

Lee

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#44 be-zed

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 09:55 AM

Don't put yourself down Lee .
They are respectable times ,especially if that was your first time to the paperclip. You will just get better from now on.With any luck we may be able to have a group booking later in the year along with a breakfast. Then you will be able to see how you go passing a group of Z's on track. That will get the butterflies going.
Aub

#45 260DET

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 10:31 AM

Yeh, 2008 is pretty ancient for track tyres. Never used tyre softener myself but what's to lose I guess, someone else here will probably have some experience with it though. You seem to be breaking yourself into sprints pretty well Lee, we all started as newbs don't forget.

#46 d3c0y

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 11:38 AM

My tyres were 2008 models too. I think your issue was that you werent checking the pressure. I took a massive amount of pressure out of mine during the first half of the day. The first four times i pitted i kept putting them back down to 34psi while they were still hot.


When the track dried and got hotter it worked the tyres a heap more and the skittishness you are talking about will happen with over-inflated tyres.

#47 dat2kman

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 11:39 AM

You womt get an entry into the regulars in the A and B series at Morgan Park, BUT, Morgan Park run, later in year ( usually October) a stand alone Qld State Supersprints meeting, that has nothing to do with the A/B series that a few Z's run at.

Contact WDSCC Warwick District Sporting Car Club, to get your name on the mail out list for that one event in October.
Maybe also a good chance for other Qld forum members who aren't running the A&B Sprints series to have a go at.

It will be a CAMS thing, so need to join any CAMS car club, and buy a CAMS L2S license ( Level 2 Speed)
Your QRO/AASA licence is not accepted at CAMS events.


#48 dat2kman

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 11:47 AM

My tyres were 2008 models too. I think your issue was that you werent checking the pressure. I took a massive amount of pressure out of mine during the first half of the day. The first four times i pitted i kept putting them back down to 34psi while they were still hot.


When the track dried and got hotter it worked the tyres a heap more and the skittishness you are talking about will happen with over-inflated tyres.


This!

Newbs are told "run high"
The tyre wont "work"
A semi
( proper soft compound, not some el cheapo from the local Tyrepower " yeah mate its a semi, you'll go fast" type shop)
Say a 225/50x15 on an 8" rim, can be run as low as 24 psi, this allows the sidewall to flexx, keeping the tread width in full contact.
After one/two warm up laps, they'll rise approx 4-6 psi, to an ideal pressure.

To go out with say 38 cold, you'll be at 45, no sidewall movement, car lifts/lowers laterally, and then less tread to ground contact.

1.07 on Clubbie, and 1.32 on National, pretty good first time out.

Jake blitzed the crap out of everyone, another first time out at QR too?


#49 d3c0y

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 11:56 AM


Thanks  ;D

First time QR and first time in 350z, second ever track day.

I warped the crapper out of my new rotors too. Breaking into turn three at 186kph on the national circuit my vision was going blury from the car shuddering so hard haha. RDA rotors = not track friendly.

I won the fast group regularity too :)

#50 260DET

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:16 PM

Link to the results site, just click on racing http://racing.natsof...m.au/results/#2

Gresham and Ian Solomon are very experienced drivers in good cars so you did bloody well in the Treefiddy Jake, top marks. And the same for you Lee, Z cars winning and kicking euro backside :D

Z Car Club is CAMS affiliated and lots of members run at Morgan Park. So plenty of support and help if something goes wrong, plus the social scene  ;) is good for those who make a weekend of it at Warwick. My plan is to register for the series next year, looking forward to it.

#51 grimlynsan

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 01:30 PM

Thanks Aubs and 260Det. And Jason and Jake, I am pretty sure you are bang on about the tyre pressures. I just wanted to not mess with them all day and learn for myself what it feels like. Next time I will be adjusting pressures for sure and hopefully I can feel the difference.

And yes I heard about the supersprint meet to which you refer at the latest Z club get together at All Jap Day.

I too had a brake issue with the rear left radiating a load of heat and the rear right normal temp. I am damn sure the handbrake wasn't on but if it was, at least I know I can go faster next time! It seems to still have plenty of meat on the pad but maybe they will need kitting?

I took all my wheels off and gave them a proper scrub yesterday (yes, even the backs!) and they came up ok actually. I thought while I was at it I'd give them a weigh too and the Performance brand 'superlites' are more like 'mildly lights' in comparison to the Rotas (unless the tyres weigh a ton or something).

Street Setup
20.6KG | Rear  | Rota RBX | 17x9.5 | 255/40 | Federal Super Steel 595
19.4KG | Front | Rota RBX | 17x9    | 235/45 | Federal Super Steel 595

Track Setup
18.6KG | All 4 | Performance | 15x8 | 225/50 | Yokohama Advan A048

A couple month's back, Jason was explaining that you can have weight removed from the rims if the middle is sufficiently thick. One day, when I'm chasing 10ths, it looks like I have plenty of meat to take off if need be. For now, I'm happy with the extra strength as I do go off track every now and then!

Oh and it turns out that those Federals a pretty decent - I'd been under the impression they were just cheapies but they seem to be their flagship performance street tyre so I shouldn't be too surprised they did so well at the Lakeside outing I suppose.

Regarding the tyre softener, I know that it replaces the chemicals that evaporate out of the tyre when they dry out, that's why you wrap them at the same time. But I don't know if it will make a difference to tyres that are from 2008, that seem to have been sitting unwrapped and in well used state for quite some time. I've now freshened up the top layer... it would be intuitive to me that now would be a good time to apply and wrap but I don't want to part with $50 for a tin of it if I have missed the boat with this set... anyone had any experience reviving really old ones? Or can you only really use it to extend the life of new ones?

Lee

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#52 d3c0y

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 02:26 PM

Link to the results site, just click on racing http://racing.natsof...m.au/results/#2

Gresham and Ian Solomon are very experienced drivers in good cars so you did bloody well in the Treefiddy Jake, top marks. And the same for you Lee, Z cars winning and kicking euro backside :D



Thanks Richard, from looking at those results I worked out I was actually behind Ian Solomon for the regularity and was doing my best to get in front of him but ran out of laps and cooling haha!


Next time out i hope to get it into the high 64s on the clubman with a bit less tyre pressure and rotors that werent totally ruined. By the time we got to the national circuit i couldn't brake hard anymore.

#53 PZG302

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 05:45 PM

2008 tyres are shot Lee, that's why they were cheap.

With your wheels, don't sweat it. For what you want to do get onto Option 1 at hamilton and buy some Achillies semis, will be cheap and for what you want faster than the old tyres. Then when you are ready to spend dollars you can buy a set of lighter wheels, Rotas or Enkeis depending on how much you want to empty your wallet, and then also get some better tyres, the proper semis, like R888's or new A048's or V700 from Kumho.

Don't worry about slicks, you will be quicker on street tyres than slicks with your current suspension.

But best of all enjoy and have fun.

For a bit of incentive, you still have a couple of seconds to go to be quicker than my near standard, extractors, cheap coilovers and semis, 1600 NA6 hairdresser car.

#54 grimlynsan

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 05:56 PM

For a bit of incentive, you still have a couple of seconds to go to be quicker than my near standard, extractors, cheap coilovers and semis, 1600 NA6 hairdresser car.


Coupled with HOW MANY years of practice?!?!  ;)

Yes this is all very good advice. I see "Nitto" also seem to offer a reasonably priced option in 15". Anyone used those?

My next project is the catch can; I was getting a lot of dirty looks from people regarding the oil I was leaving in pit lane. I tried to explain that it was the Datsun factory engine-bay paint protection system kicking in but they were having none of it.

I have the can, but having issues finding a breather tube as my soon to be written WTB post will attest.

#55 260DET

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 06:43 PM

Yeh I used a set of NT01's, they are OK but maybe try the Achillies first?

Don't worry about Matt, he is concerned about how quickly you are getting close to his handling car's times  ;D

#56 grimlynsan

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 06:44 PM

Well round III is upon us. Have just put my name down for a sprints outing at lakeside on the 15th. Happy birthday to me!
Any other zeds wanna join in? There are still some spots left!!!

#57 grimlynsan

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 07:23 PM

Just got home from another awesome outing at lakeside. It was a bit wet but I still got in loads of dry laps. Improved my PB, am now at 1:05.2 and was fortunate to pit with a couple of the lads from Garage San Maru. Always excellent to meet fellow forum members and Z enthusiasts.

Yes, as usual, Jake is 2 secs ahead. But I am sure his 350z could be caught by my 260z if it was in the hands of someone who knew what they were doing. Certainly he was impressed when he came for a passenger ride with me which is good praise from someone with a PMC monster (albeit in the garage).

Will need a new second hand set of semis before the next one I think. And maybe some brake pads. Can anyone recommend a good performance brake pad to fit 4runner calipers? I remember someone told me many moons ago you could buy a certain year of WRX or RX7 performance pads like greenstuff and they fit, or maybe required minimal machining... thoughts?

Oh and my wifee doesnt want me to burn in some crash and I just had a bday so now I have all the gear and no idea!

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#58 d3c0y

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 11:17 AM

I really recommend calling brakes direct. Those guys know there stuff and will tell sell you exactly what you need with free shipping. They have some great videos with general brake setup concepts on their facebook page too.


Put a damn tacho in your car before you blow up your motor too. It's nuts just guessing what revs you are doing! Lee wins most laps on track for the day as usual too.


I managed a 1:03.36 first time out at the lake. Bit nerve wracking having your first laps in the rain i'll tell you that.
My tyres are toast after that meeting and apparently I have a bit of time to pick up ditch 2008 model Toyo R888s haha.
Probably only one or two meetings max before I more the Z33 on, so if you want to beat me you better hurry up!


Lee you know you can see all the lap times from the day on NatSoft?
http://racing.natsof...4508.90C/View?2





#59 PZG302

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 01:27 PM

An L series motor lets you know pretty well when its had enough and needs to go up a gear. If our doing it properly you don't have time to look at the tacho around lakeside anyways.....  ;D

#60 260DET

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 03:52 PM

Good times boys, to be honest I would not be keen on doing any wet laps at Lakeside on semi slicks.

As for pads for the Toyota calipers, they are common with a number of cars so there will be a reasonable choice. At this stage any decent high performance pad should do you, racing pads only if racing is about all you do.




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