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Close Ratio Gear-sets


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#1 Mike260LW

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 09:04 PM

I didn't know whether to post this under "Gearboxes" or here but I've searched the threads with not much joy, so I thought I'd ask the experts.

I had a close ratio VL box built in 2005 with Albins 1st, 2nd and 3 rd. Back then they were $500 +GST a cog.

I'm in need of a 260Z 71B close ratio 'box so I rang Albins to find out ratios and cost and was advised the cost is now $1,400 per cog!! That's about $4,600 (incl GST), so by the time you throw in  syncros and bearings and a dob of labour to put it all together, it makes it a significant investment!

The Kameari gear sets can be had for about $1,500 for the lot but the ratios are limited and not that close.

My question is does anyone else in the world cut gear sets? USA?

#2 gav240z

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 10:31 PM

I'm not an expert on the subject. Does it have to be a L-series gearbox for your purpose? Would you not consider an SR20 / RB20 box - not sure what ratio's are available for those though?

#3 Mike260LW

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 07:38 AM

Gav, the plan is for an Sc car. My reading of the CAMS book says original gearbox. So I'm stuck with a 71B. Will be a very cammy engine too, hence the closer the ratios, the better.

#4 44014

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 10:14 AM

Im pretty sure Les put a rb gearset in Jakes 71b housing?
check with d3c0yz

cheers doug

#5 dat2kman

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 11:08 AM

Mike,
You gonna come talk to me?

I can tell you,
A What you need to know, and,
B, where you get it from, and,
C who where and how to do it.

And, well done on your reveal, here in Qld, there are four full weekends of Historic Racing you are able to participate in, along with up to 6 further events in NSW!

#6 JIM71Z

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 02:01 PM

Gday Mike  I have been running an early factory C/R 260Z box from day 1 in my Sc 260z. I have found the ratios OK. The only mods we have done are changed all the syncros and selector shafts to brass type  {need donor box} and put a longer 5th from the later box as well. If you can find a Bluebird??? box,I think, it will also have a lockout on reverse, use extension housing, so the 5th to reverse on down shift is a thing of the past. Royal Purple 80w90 oil is highly recomended. PM me for more details
James


#7 NZeder

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 06:54 PM

Watching and also wanting to know how what people are doing in the 71b space. With regards to gearboxes we are in the same boat here in NZ.

Gearbox: Only a gearbox (manual or automatic) and the ratios therein which are in the period specification may be used. Helical-cut pinions may be replaced with straight-cut ones.

So I read that I must use a 71b casing. But other mods are permitted within the period housings.

#8 260DET

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 06:56 PM

Sc racing, good move Mike. Pretty sure that PPG do sets for later Nissan five speeds, dog engagement included. Such sets would fit into a legal case with some mods I think.

#9 JIM71Z

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 07:24 PM

Sorry guys, no dog boxs allowed in Group S. Selector mechanism must remain as per standard. :(

#10 d3c0y

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 08:25 PM

The Kameari gear set for the 71B is actually the same gear set as the 71C, you are just picking the ratios. My box has 71B housings and a 71C gear set. It's all the same really, just beefier.


If you say the kameari isnt close enough then the stock is going to be even further off. What diff are you running too? 4.3 ratio pulls them nice and close and keeps the top speed down to a race friendly speed.

#11 Ledge

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 08:32 PM

I have a B box with Holinger gears.
maybe check if they still do them

cheers

#12 dat2kman

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 09:58 PM

Internals are free, gear selection to be standard, ie dog engagement with straight cut gears are ok for Gp S use.
The original factory Option boxes, ( got one here, as does Hodgo) have 1st back where Rev is, Rev back where 5th was, and 2-3-4-5 up front.
It's still a B box

Depending on the Drive/Driven input ratio, there were two types, you can come up with interesting combos in closer ratios than the original stock 260Z box, and the early old syncro type 240Z/Datsun Sports 2000 std box.

Nissan did an Early type Option box. In late 1960's/early 1970's, one had a crazy tall first gear, that was for the SCCA rolling starts.
Later Nissan Option boxes, 4 versions, were usually synchro engagement.
Holinger took those, and converted them to dog/helical, dog/straight.

The Kameari C set is not the same as the B set, but the C can be fitted to a B box.
Standard FJ20Turbo boxes were all wider gears, which co-incidently are same gear dimensions as a C box gears.
The variation is achieved with different spacer rings on the mainshaft cluster.
They are a "smooth case" same as the 260Z casing, but bell is to suit the upright pisitioned FJ block.
The later 240K/bluebird car boxes were a "ribbed case" type and run the slightly better Reverse Lock Out ( it doesnt really lock it out though!

Albins is just playing catch up to Holingers current prices, it would seem!
One needs to understand how Albins makes up a C/R cluster, eadier to show in the flesh. They start with your old cluster, and old dog rings, there is turning, welding and pressing involved.

#13 NZeder

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 04:08 AM

I see kameari also offer selector rings for their 71b gearset. They state for a smoother less friction shifting. So do people use the 71b kameari sets or the 71c with double cone sycro inside their 71b casings?

#14 HS30-H

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 06:10 AM

[quote name="dat2kman" post="151136" timestamp="1399377513"]
The original factory Option boxes, ( got one here, as does Hodgo) have 1st back where Rev is, Rev back where 5th was, and 2-3-4-5 up front.
It's still a B box[/quote]

You might want to check that before you change gear next time, or listen out for a big CRUNCH....

I've currently got three F5C71-B factory 'Dog Leg' shift pattern Sports Option transmissions, and this is the shift pattern: [/quote]

http://www.speedhunt...08/IMG_3792.jpg

#15 NZeder

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:51 AM

I've currently got three F5C71-B factory 'Dog Leg' shift pattern Sports Option transmissions, and this is the shift pattern:

http://www.speedhunt...08/IMG_3792.jpg

Now that is the shift pattern I would love to have on the track car - shame no one makes a gearset, selectors ie a conversion kit to make a 71B into an option type box.

#16 dat2kman

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 09:38 AM

Holinger will.
These were normal boxes, that Peter Holinger was commsioned to build, in Australia.
a better mousetrap, as far as Marsden, Fury, Dunkerton, and later, the circuit race cars.
He used various combinations of Nissans Sports Option ratios, sets, as dictated by Fury, for specific use.

#17 NZeder

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 12:58 PM

Holinger will.
These were normal boxes, that Peter Holinger was commsioned to build, in Australia.
a better mousetrap, as far as Marsden, Fury, Dunkerton, and later, the circuit race cars.
He used various combinations of Nissans Sports Option ratios, sets, as dictated by Fury, for specific use.

He will still make them today?

#18 dat2kman

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 01:35 PM

He will still make them today?

Peter Holinger is no longer with us (RIP), i had heard that they may be able to pull out the old drawings - no cad-cam here!, and remake them.
One of their employees is/was the Datsun go-to guy.
I sent him pics of the Fury 120Y box innards, and he picked it straight away, told me Goerge specifically asked for certain things to be done, which even today, most would think a bit out of the ordinary.

Like Albins, they wont be cheap

#19 Lurch ™

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 01:45 PM

As ever, this topic has been dragged off course...

To Mike the OP - use a FJ20 TURBO gearbox (same casting as the 71B, but with the 71C gearset) and fit an L-series bellhousing.
Use the Kameari 71C gearset in it, with the raito's:
1st 2.427
2nd 1.677
3rd 1.258
4th 1.000
5th 0.838

That's as close as you'll get with an off the shelf gearset, & you'll still comply within the Grp Sc rules.

#20 NZeder

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 08:18 PM

Not dragged too far off still talking about what options there are.

Now having said that I personally have taken your advice Lurch and tonight secured 2 x FJ20 turbo boxes. One for use in the car with a l6 bellhousing the other to be rebuilt with a kameari 71c gearset and L6 bellhousing for later on.




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