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park lights and brake lights always on and other eletrical issues


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#21 Cozza

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 10:47 PM

Yep you've got the right globes in, thats it, just unplug the wiper motor in the engine bay and turn the ignition to accesories and see if the lights come on.

Just a guess but might just be the problem.

#22 Zedman240®

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 02:05 PM

Hey mick, thanks for the advice. Will check it out tomorrow so I just undo the wiper plug in the engine bay?  Just confirmed that I do have double filament bulb it says 21/5w. The odd thing is that when the brake pedal is pressed the bulbs only lit up slightly brighter. So in the daylight you would not notice its gone brighter unless you really had a close look.

I also replaced the indicator/park lights with the same type of bulb (15d) is it the correct bulb? When thr indicator is on you can really tell that its flashing whereas compared to the brakes which are hardly noticeable but are actually working


Sounds like the globe may be 180' out; the pins are offset on the globe base but if the holder has expanded slightly, the globe may be inserted incorrectly. Whats happening is your parker wiring is giving power to the stop filament and the parker filament switches on when you apply the brakes and when you say they come on slightly.

#23 phillay

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 11:52 PM

Unplugging wiper motor has not affected the lights, so the short is elsewhere. I think I might need to take the multi switch and see if the short is from there by opening up the contact switches and have a look see. On a good note I emailed he guy that made the headlight harness for msa and he write me a guide on how to make a relay harness for the park lights. I finish putting it together so I might install them in the car once my h4 arrives in the mail.

I will have a go at switching the globe after work.



#24 Cozza

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 08:58 AM

That's a shame, sorry for that. Figure it was worth a try at least.
Mick

#25 phillay

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 06:52 PM

Nar mate all good, I might as well remove dash and look at it properly

#26 phillay

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 05:39 PM

Alrighty here goes:

I've removed the dash and that was a mission in itself struggled to remove the heater control cables but in the end I got there with the help of my cousin.

the wiring loom does not seem to be hacked as bad as I had thought. Although there are a few wires that's got my scratching my head as I've tried referencing this against the USA wiring diagram and it does not seem to appear on it. The wires that I can't figure out what they are for don't seem to be wires that have been put in by the PO so hence why I am making this post.

Sorry for the crap pics - please help


PIC1. I know the black and red separate wires may probably be for the glove box light (i don't have the actual light anymore) but what is the 4 pin plug for? it was wasn't connected and there isn't another one close by.

PIC 1
Posted Image

PIC2 & PIC2a
next wire I am not sure about is this wire that hangs off the fuse box, it's a blue/white wire I looked at it and its linked to the common fuse, from looking at the diagram it seems that its purpose is to power the cig socket - am i correct and if so I don't really need it so I could just leave it?

PIC2 & PIC2a
Posted Image

PIC3
This is the most concerning plug, I do not know where all these blue wires go to, I am pretty sure they were not connected to anything also that 3 pin plug with the funky adaptor that has a red wire which I think connects to a sub loom that connects the fan switch to the blower, is that how they are meant to be?I am pretty sure there wasn't a corresponding plug to the 3 pin plug as well.

PIC3
Posted Image

PIC4
there are a group of plugs that are located right at the drivers side corner of the dash, they are ones that pass into the firewall, there are these 2 yellow / green wires which do not follow the diagram i am referencing, one of them is just snipped off and the other one has been crimped by the PO for some unknown reason. Does anyone know what the snipped wire does?

PIC4
Posted Image


PIC5&5a
Another wire from the group of loom plug at the firewall

this one connects to nothing.

PIC5
Posted Image

PIC5a
Posted Image

PIC6
there are 2 loose wires in this pic that I counldn't trace, it is the yellow/green and red/blue wire (my thumb is kinda pointing to it) they don't seem to go anywhere, it's the other end of the plugs that is from the firewall

PIC6
Posted Image

PIC7
this is a relay of some sort, the 6 pins on the right side of the plug (on this photo) has a plug so that's fine, but the left side of the relay with the 4 pins do not have a plug that are close by, what is it for?

PIC7
Posted Image


thanks in advance and sorry for the long post and shocking pics.

#27 Zedman240®

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:18 PM

Where are you loacted in Melbourne? If you are sort of local, I can probably come by and have a looksy... You have several things going on there that pics cant really help.

#28 maddos

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:20 PM

I'd be looking at your brake switch. Considering the problem happens when acc is switched on this rules out a problem with your parker's cct because they would be on whether key was on or off anyway.
Try pulling the wires from the switch attached to your brake pedal and if you have a meter, check the resistance across it. I'm guessing it may have gone short.
Happy fault finding.
Just a tip, 12v is constantly supplied to lamps with the earth being switched to complete cct.

#29 Retro Z

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 09:08 PM

Have you got or looked at a wiring diagram? I downloaded a few and have also been going through my wiring the last few days and have got most things sorted. Quite easy once you know how to read the diagram and trace the wires. Make sure you download one specific to the year of your car as they differ greatly from my experience.

The black and yellow wire (pic 5) near your firewall is an ignition trigger wire either to hook up to your starter motor of the ignition switch.

The blue and white one hanging off the fusebox should be for the door open switch.

Can you send a picture of the wire/plug to your ignition switch? It may be pinned wrong sounds similar to a problem i had. Also is your car auto or manual? I bridged the wrong 2 wires on my interlock switch (accidentally bridged a reverse switch wire and 1 neutral wire and it caused all sorts of stranged problems with my lights and ignition.

#30 phillay

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 09:27 PM

hey guys I did look at the brake switch it looked like shiver, but I don't think it would have shorted out not really sure. But I will be running a new wire, should I change it? I unscrewed it and it looked ok.

I am located in Cairnlea.

I only printed out the 1973 diagram I do have the others as well.

The car is a manual one.

My ignition switch has a strange problem Im not sure if it's relevant but when I turn the key to the lock position it would start the car halfway b'w off and lock

I guess it's time to change the switch?

heres a pic of the ign switch

Posted Image



#31 maddos

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 04:24 AM

Even if it hasn't shorted, check that the brake pedal is physically making contact with it when not depressed.

#32 Cozza

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:19 AM

Even if it hasn't shorted, check that the brake pedal is physically making contact with it when not depressed.

I can't see how this would make the lights come on when turned to accesories. The wiring diagram i have been following shows the brake lights are permanently active, if the switch was not being closed then the brake lights would be on all the time.

Phil did you happen to confirm if the brake lights worked correctly when the ignition was turned to the off position?

Also, did you monitor the lights while you were disconnecting the loom to see when they turned off?

With regard to your other queries, your wiring looks different to my 9/72 240 from memory. Unfortunately my car is not with me at the moment so I can't confirm. Also it is difficult to follow a wiring diagram via photos, I find it necessary to 'bell out' wires to confirm their identity. Finally i have not found a single wiring diagram that actually matches my cars wiring, i have had to blend a couple diagrams to suit my vehicle. I have intended on drawing a wiring diagram in ACAD with appropriate layers but haven't got around to it yet.

In saying that, your pic 1. the only 4 pin plug that I can think of behind the glove box on mine was for one of the passing light relays which mounts on the passenger side kick panel. My wiring diagram shows the wire colours to be red/white, black, red/white and red/blue.
Sorry I can't comment on your other queries

Good luck Mate
Mick

#33 boyblunda

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:56 AM

I think RayRay might have suggested a possible line of investigation in post #4. If this is the problem, it only takes 30 seconds to identify and is dead simple to fix. If not, then no great amount of time wasted.

See post #4 this forum and https://www.classicz...hts-always.html and for more detailed fix http://www.classiczc...ights-stay.html

And from another http://www.classiczc...ermanently.html post this quote :
"The 1st Time I drove my yellow beast, the brake lights locked on too. I found it to be the brake pedal itself. That is, when I pushed the brake pedal down away from the switch, I could then press the switch with my finger. And wha la, the brake lights turned off.
But when I let go of the pedal and it came back to rest on the switch, the lights still did not turn off. Strange? Looking around on the floor, I found a little bit of blue plastic. This prompted me to take a closer look at the pedal and switch arrangement with a torch and a flexible 360 degree neck.
Sure enough, there is a hole in the pedal directly where the switch should come into contact with it. The bloody switch was poking into or slightly through the pedal. That is the pedal was not touching the switch at all.
It appears that the K had a plastic "bump-stop" on the pedal which had shattered due to its age. This cushion (bumpe stop) used to mount to the pedal, through the pedal. And when it died, all it left was a hole.
Applying the nearest "bush mechanical rule", I found a flat headed nut and bolt and filled the hole. Using the flat head of the bolt to rest against the switch. Hey, Hey, and what do you know, the Brake Lights went off.
And it is still there today."

The key to the problem identified in the above links is that, in all of them, there is nothing wrong with the wiring or the brake switch - check the brake pedal itself.

Regards
Dave

#34 phillay

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 09:01 AM

Prior to taking the dash out the brake lights never works until I had changed the fuse and globes. Once that was done they were permanently on along with the front park lights. But when the pedal was pressed the brake lights would lit up slightly brighter. If the car was in off position this would not happen.

How do I test out the brake switch with a multi meter? I have a feeling my combo light switch could be the culprit. The loom looks in recall good shape and I am going to put the dash back in without connecting the heater blower loom. Also it seems there are about 3 pairs of blue/red wire loose close to the gauges. These wire are identical to the active and earth wires that powers the gauges. (Gauges already have wires) what else could they be used for? Would it be normal there are unused wires in the loom?

#35 boyblunda

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 09:50 AM

Okay. It seems that you have already identified and repaired a few problems with your brake light issues and that you are still searching for the remaining problem/s.

You have gone to an inordinate amount of effort and time to this point but I have not heard you say that you have eliminated the brake pedal possibility as initially suggested by RayRay. As you say, if there is a slight difference in light in brightness on depression of the brake pedal, then this is likely not the problem.

Hope things come to pass for you soon with this. Electrical problems are one of the biggest PITA factors of all time.

Good luck
Dave

#36 PB260Z

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 09:54 AM

How do I test out the brake switch with a multi meter?


Easy,

http://www.ehow.com/...ht-switch_.html

Or did I misunderstand your question ?



#37 phillay

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:59 AM

Yes that's what I was after. Is there another way to test out if I've removed the switch from the loom?

If I can't figure out the problem in a bit I might give it a rest and sand my flares and give thema coat of primer and paint.

Where do you guys buy rubber gasket for the taillight and headlight buckets besides from the USA?

#38 Cozza

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 12:22 PM

If the car was in off position this would not happen.

So what would happen when the ignition was in the off position?

I have a feeling my combo light switch could be the culprit.

Me too, I got a feeling you have a short between the lights and wiper circuits within the switch.

Also it seems there are about 3 pairs of blue/red wire loose close to the gauges. These wire are identical to the active and earth wires that powers the gauges. (Gauges already have wires) what else could they be used for? Would it be normal there are unused wires in the loom?

Yes there are plenty of wires that are unused on some models but would be used in a differing spec model. You should be able to determine their intended purpose. Mind you this is often easier when you have it all connected and can test the wires individually. The wires could be for the map light or illumination behind the cigarette lighter maybe the lights behind the fan controls (not sure these exist, just thinking out loud)

Another test would be to pull the fuses of the accesories circuit and see what happens.

To test your brake light switch, set your multi meter to a resistance or continuity test function and connect the 2 wires of the switch to the leads of your multi meter. Not sure which way round it is but when the brake switch is either in or out you should have a continuous circuit with very low resistance, less than 0.1 of an ohm. When the switch the other way, you should have an open circuit where your multi meter will read nothing.

On another note, does your dash need any repairs, might be worth doing while its out.
Mick

#39 phillay

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 01:28 PM

Thanks mick

The brake lights will not lit up if I stepped on the brake pedal when the ign barrel is set at off.

Where is a good place in melb to get the dash redone. There are no cracks but between the gauge humps the vinyl has come off and is not sticking to the dash anymore.

#40 phillay

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 03:56 PM

Got the dash in without the heater fan controls, connected everything bar the brake switch. Stop light and park lights are now off... Lol. Ordering a new switch now, I tested the switch with a multimeter it seems to be constantly on I.e there is low resistance all the time and when you press in the plastic button there is no resistance I am not sure what is going on there. But I'm glad its working OK now.

One good thing out of this exercise is that I now can take out and put in the dash quite fast. And also I've eliminated the CD player loom that was hacked into the wiring. I don't need music anyways .

During the process of reconnecting what was logical I.e. sane colour wire/plugs I did have a few left over plugs and also the relay is now not connected I will post pics of my relays and cables in the afternoon. Cheers guys




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