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#41 PZG302

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:05 AM

The ZCCQ is noted for introducing members to motorsport, a look at the numbers of members competing in sprints for the first time indicates how successful that approach has been. The next step could have been to introduce sprinters to racing, at an event where the proceedings would have been carefully monitored and supervised with safety paramount. However due to the nanny state introduction of compulsory HANS devices for racing that option will not be practical now. As I said before, well done  >:(

We know what is best for you = nanny state.


Richard, the  HANS device is only one of a selection of racewear you must have to go racing, and is not a substantial cost to do so. You are also required to wear a race suit, double layer minimum, though triple layer is encouraged, proper racing shoes/boots and gloves plus socks and a balaclava is also recommended. This is a big step up from the sprinters uniform of jeans, cotton long sleeve shirt and maybe some cheap driving shoes. Yeas a lot of sprinters wear suits, but I know a lot are only wearing single layer.

The car also needs a step up in preparation and safety equipment to go from sprints to race, cage and seat plus proper harnesses. And then you really need to get a log book for the car for AASA events, especially if you want to play down south at race events at Wakefield and Winton, let alone a CAMS log book for CAMS events, and then a whole raft of other standards come into play.

I don't see this as nanny state, I see it as risk mitigation for you, and also the poor bastard left to clean up your mess when it turn into a heap of shit and feathers. I have seen many bad on track incidents at race meetings from over 10 years as a fire marshall and medical chase car and FIV driver from state rounds to Indy and the F1 GP. They aren't nice when you turn up to find someone a bag of jelly or their neck snapped, or someone having to shove a pen in their throat to keep them a live whilst still trapped in the car.

Without these advances in driver safety equipment many more of us would be in boxes, wheel chairs or slobbering in a corner. Motorsport is dangerous, but we can make it as safe as possible to all participents on both sides of the fence, and if that costs extra, then so be it.

Aub, I think what you and the ZCCQ are trying to do is great, but those who want to take the next step to door to door racing should be made aware of what is needed, yes it is a fair investment to make the plunge into racing, and they should be encouraged, but unfortunatey its not as easy as some would like. It is still a hell of a lot easier than what it was 20 years ago to get a licence, prepare a car, get track time and play, but it should be a little difficult to make sure that the people who want to go racing treat it as the serious business it is.

If I can be of any assistance as a mentor for any one in the club who wants to go racing in terms of car prep., eligibility for the various sports car categories and the administration and what you need to do on the day, let me know. I am more than prepared to be someone's pit bitch for a meeting or two so they get to learn the ropes, including simple things like are the wheel nuts tight, pressures right and also on racing etiquette on and off the track.

I think with 20+ years of racing and 10+ years of marshaling I might know a little bit about this caper.

#42 PZG302

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:43 AM

Also, if you can get the try the racing day at a ZCCQ event, I wouldn't really look at doing it at Lakeside, people who haven't raced before and Lakeside would be a bad mix.

The clubman circuit at QR would be the safest circuit, yet it is a technically tricky circuit to drive, especially through the dip on the connection road, and will give people more than enough of an idea if they want to play door to door without the extra risks associated with making a mistake at Lakeside. Remember there is no CTRL Z when you banzai down the inside of someone and get it wrong in real life.....

#43 260DET

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 11:27 AM

It's nothing to do with me personally which would be clear if some reader's English comprehension was half decent. For the third time it's about potential participants and weather they have a HANS device and, if not, if they may wish to get one just to try some racing. It's very easy for the usual internet warriors to criticise but of course they don't put their hands up to actually help do anything constructive. Nor do they put their money where their mouth is, it's the ZCCQ which has to outlay the $ and it's the appointed club members who have to make responsible decisions that can involve a lot of club money.

Criticism doesn't bother me much personally because there are always those who hang around just waiting for the opportunity to criticise the doers. As far as I'm concerned they are nobodies but it's unfortunate when they criticise the club, by doing so in effect they criticise every single club member.

#44 260DET

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 11:38 AM

Also, if you can get the try the racing day at a ZCCQ event, I wouldn't really look at doing it at Lakeside, people who haven't raced before and Lakeside would be a bad mix.

The clubman circuit at QR would be the safest circuit, yet it is a technically tricky circuit to drive, especially through the dip on the connection road, and will give people more than enough of an idea if they want to play door to door without the extra risks associated with making a mistake at Lakeside. Remember there is no CTRL Z when you banzai down the inside of someone and get it wrong in real life.....


If the club could have run a 'try and see' racing event as part of a motorsport day then as far as I'm concerned anyone who tried anything other than a clean pass would be black flagged. The great thing about the club blokes who sprint is that they all respect each other and drive hard but fair so they, and any visitor, who wanted to try racing would have been in a much safer environment than most.

#45 PZG302

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 12:07 PM

If the club could have run a 'try and see' racing event as part of a motorsport day then as far as I'm concerned anyone who tried anything other than a clean pass would be black flagged. The great thing about the club blokes who sprint is that they all respect each other and drive hard but fair so they, and any visitor, who wanted to try racing would have been in a much safer environment than most.


Quite a few days you see the red mist descend in sprints, plus the fact you go out on the track at intervals, not all bunched up for a rolling start. Racing is quite different to sprints so to mitigate the risks, QR's Clubman circuit would be perfect in comparison to Lakeside where there is no run off if things do go pearshaped.

#46 dat2kman

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 12:52 PM

Qld Raceway will have far more opportunities to allow a grid of Z car Racing in with their other race groups, more so than  at the often reffered to as dangerous, Lakeside.
You are under QRO licensing and safety requirements,
NOT AASA
For sure dispensation for logbooks for a one off type event could be applied.

Few years back, the do-ers in the ZCCQ at the time, actually did this very thing, it worked fine then, as it would now.
Those that have had race experience, under AASA, QRO as well as CAMS, are more in a position to know the how what why and where, compared to those who have no idea, suggest something of interest, wants rules re-written, and spits baby dum-dums when it goes a bit pear shaped.

It is not that hard.
Alongside pZG302 offering to assist and mentor, I too, would be able to do likewise.
We've, along with a few others, have done a fair bit of this, over many years, as opposed to the odd day a year sprinter, who has minimal experience.


#47 peterrx5

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 06:56 PM

This is an event that I would love to have a crack at, but not sure about the requirements such as car configuration (Cage etc.) and driver experience and licence level/requirements.

May I take this opportunity to wish everyone a Very Merry Christmas and a Safe and Happy New Year.

Cheers
Peter

ALL NEW QR 300 ENDURO AT QUEENSLAND RACEWAY FOR THE FESTIVAL OF CARS


Queensland Raceways has announced the introduction of the all new QR 300 Enduro Race as part of the Festival of Cars at Queensland Raceway, 3rd-4th May 2014.

The new race format is based on the highly successful Wakefield 300 event held annually at Wakefield Park Raceway, and will see competitors complete 96 laps around the National Circuit for a total race distance of 300km.

The QR 300 will be open to all Sports Cars and Sedans, including (but not limited to) Improved Production, Sports Sedans, HQ's, Geminis and Excels. The minimum lap time around the National Circuit will be 1 minute and 22 seconds. Each vehicle entering the QR 300 must be driven by a minimum of two drivers with a maximum of three drivers for the event.

Queensland Raceways General Manager, Keith Lewis, said that the event will hopefully draw a wide range of cars and competitors to the circuit; including interstate drivers who currently compete in the Wakefield 300.

"The success of the event at Wakefield shows that there is definitely a large market for this type of race meeting. The plan is to run the event in 2014 to gauge the interest in a 300km enduro at Queensland Raceway, with the aim of running an 'East Coast Challenge' series with three events across three different circuits in 2015."

Supplementary Regulations and further details for the new event will be finalised over the coming weeks and released early in the New Year.

For more information please email events@qldraceways.com.au.


#48 PZG302

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 07:08 PM

Peter, the QR300 would be a huge step up for most from the 6 hour relay events that have been done in the past by the ZCCQ. The event is one car two to three drivers, and the field will have a huge disparity in times, probably not the best event to be having your first go at racing. The speed difference between the front runners and the tale end of the field will be scary, similar in relative terms to the CUE one hour series and we have all seen the scary speed difference in cars there.

The car prep is a huge step up from sprints, you need cage, seat harness, proper suit, gloves shoes, helmet HANS etc. So a decision not to be taken lightly. As I have said before it is now a hell of a lot easier to get into door to door racing than it was 20+ years ago when I first got my CAMS racing licence. Back then it generally took two cracks at the OLT to get a signature, just because, to make sure you were committed to getting your licence to race.

In my opinion the best events to dabble with a tow in the water would be a QR event at QR, safe track and a lot less pressure. As I have offered before if anyone is serious about having a crack at door to door racing I am more than willing to mentor in all facets from car and driver prep through to the admin and track etiquette on the day to get you started.

#49 260DET

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 06:51 PM

The club's survey shows that overwhelmingly people want to experience the challenge of Lakeside, not QR. The previous events we have held at Lakeside were very successful with a lot of positive feedback, to change to QR would be crazy.  I'm quite sure that we could run a fun, fast and safe racing segment but unfortunately we have been denied that opportunity.

#50 Mike260LW

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 10:35 AM

Merry Christmas everyone! Sorry, jumping into this discussion at a late stage but I wanted to make a contribution and observations. What's with the narking? A bit of a playground tiff really. Anyway, as a mostly "sprinter" and Tarmac rally participant (when funds allow), I got the opportunity to run as an "invited car" at the Shannon's Sports and Muscle car event a couple of years ago. Jason and a couple of other ZCCQ members with Tarmac rally spec cars got to play with the Sc historics. It was an absolutely fantastic experience which I would love to do again; and I'm sorry I missed the opportunity this year as I was overseas. So I would love to participate again in a flag to flag event. Leaving the HANS debate aside (I intend to buy and use one - how I would get my lardy-arsed frame out the passenger window of an upside down zed with a HANS on is another issue), I wanted to give my thoughts about this cherry-popping event that you veteran racers have probably forgotten about and sprinters haven't experienced.

A driver trainer once told me human beings are hard wired to processing information up to the speed of chasing game through a forrest!  Anything faster and we start dropping off or shedding/filtering info. The skill which is inherent or learnt is processing the important stuff and dumping the rest. In a flag to flag situation, for a newbee, there is so much going on around you compared to sprinting, it's a bit of an overload.  The thing I found, and was guilty of, was I could cope with the race craft but new inputs like marshal flags were not processed well. There is so much to be spatially aware of that, for a first time event, a less challenging circuit such as QR Clubman, as Matt suggested, May not be such a bad choice. Poor old QR is much maligned but all configurations are challenging. It is a lot more foregiving than Lakeside and will offer a driver a second chance if he embroiled in the heat of battle and misses a braking point.  My thoughts; but I'm up for it. I personally would like to compete against a variety of Zed period cars eg Alfa, Porsche, anything of period.  Cheers.


#51 dat2kman

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 03:56 PM

The club's survey shows that overwhelmingly people want to experience the challenge of Lakeside, not QR. The previous events we have held at Lakeside were very successful with a lot of positive feedback, to change to QR would be crazy.  I'm quite sure that we could run a fun, fast and safe racing segment but unfortunately we have been denied that opportunity.

Denied by who?
Has any query been pit to QRO?
For either Lakeside or QR Clubman layout?
The "survey", was this not based on answers from attendees at a Lapz day, ie groups of 15-20 out for sperited driving, as opposed to the more serious regular sprints guys, that go a fair bit harder in groups of 6-8 cars?

The simple reason for the suggestion of QR Clubman is one of safety, ease of getting a date, greater possibility of slotting in with other race groups on a race day.
You'll no doubt make sure it wont happen, ' cos it's not at Lakeside!

Note, above quote comes from a non-serioys Lapz entrant, that rubbishes teacks like MP ( unless its the super fast TR after bridge layout, not the ones in common accepted regular use)

As further above, if at all pissible, later in 2014, I will ask again, of the HRCC, to do what we did, many years ago, it will be Lakeside, but, as Mike said above, to do a flags race at QR Clubman, would be more "attractive" overall.

#52 be-zed

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 12:07 PM

Thank you for the offers . I will put them on the back burner for now . I can not answer many question at present and thank you Jason, I was unaware that QR had changed from ASAA . Reading the new licence forms is quite interesting.  But it will also be Lakeside fot the venue as dates on weekends at both tracks fill quickly and the 17th May was one I could get . Lakeside seems more popular with the masses .Remember the group sprint we tried to organise at Ipswich some time ago. But yes ,I have asked the question to QR and I have had no answer back as yet .Being Christmas and all I don't really expect to till new year. I feel it will not be a easy question to answer for just a single club event and the answer may be no. But that is no reason why the question can not be asked for the Warwick NDN2015 event.

#53 PZG302

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 02:27 PM

You may get the go ahead at NDN15, but I wouldn't hold my breath for a full race. You may have to stretch the rules and run it as a sprint but with a standing start for groups up to 6 cars and times only recorded and no "winner" other than the person with the fastest lap.

If you do do this also ensure that you have a full complement of marshals, flag, fire/rescue and race control, etc for the obvious safety reasons and arse covering in case something goes awry.

#54 260DET

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 04:56 PM

So, what working role would you non ZCCQ blokes be willing to undertake for LapZ and for NDN15 if you are keen? As you seem to be. Goes without saying that you would have to work strictly according to club instructions. So that everything runs smoothly and our club guests have a great motorsport day.

#55 PZG302

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 05:12 PM

For Lapz, I would be able to lend a hand doing whatever is needed that can't be done by club members such as srcutineer and also if anyone wants to go racing point out what may need to be done for compliance to either 2F, 2B or Sc rules and what category their car fits in best.

For NDN15 a lot depends on when and what I am doing for work and what it will cost me to be there, accommodation. lost wages, etc. But more than happy to be a scrutineer and wave flags if available.

In all seriousness for NDN15, if not already organised get in contact with Qld fire and rescue club to get costs for their services and also to the QMROA (I hope that's right) for flaggies. To get the expert officials may cost but if the worse happens you will be awful glad you got them.

#56 260DET

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 06:44 PM

That's good Matt but don't worry about NDN15, the club has run Nationals before at MP and our corporate knowledge is still intact. But there is always room for a willing helper.

#57 dat2kman

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 08:02 PM

Thank you for the offers . I will put them on the back burner for now . I can not answer many question at present and thank you Jason, I was unaware that QR had changed from ASAA . Reading the new licence forms is quite interesting.  But it will also be Lakeside fot the venue as dates on weekends at both tracks fill quickly and the 17th May was one I could get . Lakeside seems more popular with the masses .Remember the group sprint we tried to organise at Ipswich some time ago. But yes ,I have asked the question to QR and I have had no answer back as yet .Being Christmas and all I don't really expect to till new year. I feel it will not be a easy question to answer for just a single club event and the answer may be no. But that is no reason why the question can not be asked for the Warwick NDN2015 event.

Aub,
at NDN15, under CAMS permit, at WDSCC 's M/Park, this will never ever happen.
Full stop.
As said above, it could be done at a QRO facility, simply due to the "relaxed" method of operation by QRO.
They have not run under AASA for some time now, they have their own insurances ( available for full public scrutiny btw)

Just keep NDN15 nice and simple, a tried and proven formula, use a WDSCC set of Supplementary Regs, like I did in 2009, dont alter anything, CAMS will see it is same same, rubber stamp it, and just run sprints.

Hopefully those organising or in CAMS organisational roles, in the ZCCQ, are fully CAMS licensed officials, with appropriate status and are up to date with all training requirements to conduct these roles.
Otherwise, the club could quite eadily bring in those that are!

#58 dat2kman

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 08:13 PM

So, what working role would you non ZCCQ blokes be willing to undertake for LapZ and for NDN15 if you are keen? As you seem to be. Goes without saying that you would have to work strictly according to club instructions. So that everything runs smoothly and our club guests have a great motorsport day.

LapZ at either QRO facility is basic Sprints, QRO usually provide staff?
A Flags to Flags Races day, under QRO, will involve more staff, as per usual QRO race days, it just needs a seperate date, ( not same day as a LapZ sprint day), as it is a somewhat different event.

NDN15 will come under CAMS licensed Officials control, and it will be those officials telling the ZCCQ what to do, not the other way around!
Same as occurs at all other CAMS permit required events.
Comes down to experience and knowing what to do, and how to do it, to keep the Stewards happy, bear in mind, they can rapidly stop an event, if correct procedure is not followed.

#59 260DET

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 12:35 PM

Hmmm, thinking more of the day to day stuff rather than the CAMS specific stuff. Like checking in participants, handing out stuff, that sort of thing. Which has to be done by volunteers who do it for the love and completely free, otherwise it gets too expensive for participants if the club has to start paying for accommodation etc.. After all it's a non profit thing, all the ZCCQ aims to do is break even financially.

#60 dat2kman

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 04:00 PM

As the ZCCQ has not got the breadth and depth of suitable CAMS officials, and no, four year old ones wont do, it needs to get up to speed with this.
Minimum requirements for the three or four key personell for the permit applicable events will be gold and some silver's in the appropriate field.
Basic General Fficials licensing for the basic mundane roles is fine.
If you have'nt got them, expect to be paying some monetary and accomodation compensations.

Your Stewards will be appointed by head office.

As far as the mundane stuff, ie handing out stuff, etc, use your member base, as done so well in the past.




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