Sports Car Racing?

[260DET]

And don't forget for QR events you will need to have a HANS device for any racing from January 1, so that is also upgrading your helmet to a minimum of SNELL2005 as AS1698 helmets cannot be fitted with posts and you also need to hire or purchase the radio receiver that is mandatory for racing.

 

If that is the case then any track event the ZCCQ might run should not sensibly include a racing segment. Hardly anyone in the club has a HANS device for a start. Too bad, it could have been an interesting thing to do but the nanny state strikes again.

[PZG302]

Richard, in this case I agree with QR on the mandatory HANS device for racing. Looking at the incidents that happened last year without and with the drivers wearing HANS devices I know that I am happy I bought one and will be updating my seat to one with the wings for the head restraint to give me the best chance I can. Sort of reminds me of the old Bell Helmets marketing..... If you have a $10 head buy a $10 helmet.

 

I don't see HANS devices as nanny state, I see it as improving the safety of our sport as has happened throughout the years, decent helmets, then mandatory belts, and improvements in belt technology, improvements in ROPS over the years. Sure they are expenses that are put onto competitors, but we now have less deaths in the sport than we have before at all levels. When I first started racing you had at least one death a year in all states at state level racing, now we have one or two deaths across the country in a bad year.

 

If you see making valid safety requirements as nanny state, then so be it, but for mine it makes my sport safer and if the worse happens I have a better chance of walking away I'll take it. Another reason why I am paying a very good fabricator a bucket load of cash to weld a heap of extra weight into the shell and the better half doesn't mind how much this part of the race car build costs,

 

Also if you are racing the car needs a cage at QR anyway, so that will take out a few more Zeds and to wear the HANS device you need an one piece fixed back seat and and harness, so there goes a few more.

[dat2kman]

Nanny state?

You are quite wrong!

qRO ( Queensland Raceways Operations-the two brisbane tracks) are very pro-active in getting those that actually want to do something a bit more than just plain sprints, into the next step, ie flag to flag.

 

Cars do not need to be CAMS full on rules type, but more lenient ie: they want you on the teack, and paying them the $$.

Pretty much any of the caged sprinter Zeds could participate in a flags event, and they'd be in with other similar type cars. Bot registered and unregistered.

Any Tarmac rally car would fit right in.

 

The biggest hurdle, if wanting to run at other than QRO tracks, is CAMS and the requirement for not only a car to Group 2 Sports car regs, but, in addition, the particular specification apparel

( suit/gloves/socks/balaclava/shoes/helmet/or correct helmet with HANS device)

 

Nanny State? No way, it is too easy to go and race,,,,, if you rwally want to, in Qld.

[PZG302]

Well here's an event for those in Qld who want to step up to racing, this just came into my inbox a few minutes ago.

 

ALL NEW QR 300 ENDURO AT QUEENSLAND RACEWAY FOR THE FESTIVAL OF CARS

 

Queensland Raceways has announced the introduction of the all new QR 300 Enduro Race as part of the Festival of Cars at Queensland Raceway, 3rd-4th May 2014.

 

The new race format is based on the highly successful Wakefield 300 event held annually at Wakefield Park Raceway, and will see competitors complete 96 laps around the National Circuit for a total race distance of 300km.

 

The QR 300 will be open to all Sports Cars and Sedans, including (but not limited to) Improved Production, Sports Sedans, HQ's, Geminis and Excels. The minimum lap time around the National Circuit will be 1 minute and 22 seconds. Each vehicle entering the QR 300 must be driven by a minimum of two drivers with a maximum of three drivers for the event.

 

Queensland Raceways General Manager, Keith Lewis, said that the event will hopefully draw a wide range of cars and competitors to the circuit; including interstate drivers who currently compete in the Wakefield 300.

 

"The success of the event at Wakefield shows that there is definitely a large market for this type of race meeting. The plan is to run the event in 2014 to gauge the interest in a 300km enduro at Queensland Raceway, with the aim of running an 'East Coast Challenge' series with three events across three different circuits in 2015."

 

Supplementary Regulations and further details for the new event will be finalised over the coming weeks and released early in the New Year.

 

For more information please email events@qldraceways.com.au.

 

You just have to trust someone else to punt your car around as well.

[260DET]

HANS should be a personal choice thing for low level racing, making them compulsory will stop a lot of people from having a go to see if racing is for them. It's not as if the benefits of a HANS has not been publicised enough, a lot of people are using them voluntarily anyway.

[PZG302]

The HANS device also keeps the insurance we can claim on, if the worse happens, affordable.

 

Fortunately for both CAMS and AASA events you fuck up big time, you can claim on the event holder's insurance policy to pay for medical costs and in the case of permanent disability, a payout will be made to help with living costs when you can't work. Some of us find these things a little reassuring to provide for families after something bad has happened from our selfish activities.

 

A safety device that costs $450 isn't going to stop someone going racing when you look at the rest of the costs to get your car ready for racing. If you can't spare $450 out of your car build budget you shouldn't be racing, what other short cuts have you taken?

 

 

[luvemfast]

^^^ what he said.

I've now gotten myself a HANS device since Peter Halls death. And I just do sprinting!

But you do t need ont Richard 

[PZG302]

^^^ what he said.

I've now gotten myself a HANS device since Peter Halls death. And I just do sprinting!

But you do t need ont Richard 

 

Well as I said before......

 

$10 dollar head, $10 dollar helmet........

[Riceburner]

^^^ what he said.

I've now gotten myself a HANS device since Peter Halls death. And I just do sprinting!

But you do t need ont Richard 

 

Might be a silly question but can these be fitted to any helmet?

 

 

 

 

[PZG302]

Might be a silly question but can these be fitted to any helmet?

 

No, you need a SA2005 or higher helmet.

 

Best is SAH2010, which has either prefitted HANS posts or the threads ready for HANS posts.

 

SA2005 can have posts retro fitted, but it is scary drilling into your helmet.

 

AS1698 helmets cannot be drilled to fit HANS devices.

 

A SAH2010 rated helmet can be bought for around $400, so there is no excuse not to upgrade if your present helmet is getting old.

 

 

[260DET]

Actually I have a SA2005 helmet but the fact is that this HANS requirement has eliminated any possibility of the ZCCQ including a 'get acquainted' racing segment into any circuit event we may run. Well done 

[luvemfast]

If you want to "get aquainted" with Motorsport? Start with sprints.

If you want to do door to door racing? Get the right gear!

Not that hard really.

I've mentioned before that I was thinking about walking away from speed events. But feel better after taking the plunge and getting some safety upgrades. Getting a good deal helped too.

How much money would you spend on performance parts? Why do people cheap out on safety gear? Spend a few grand and protect yourselves.

It sounds like this thread has run it's course. You want to have door to door, with a class that suits a is unclassifyable and most likely under subscribed.

[260DET]

The ZCCQ is noted for introducing members to motorsport, a look at the numbers of members competing in sprints for the first time indicates how successful that approach has been. The next step could have been to introduce sprinters to racing, at an event where the proceedings would have been carefully monitored and supervised with safety paramount. However due to the nanny state introduction of compulsory HANS devices for racing that option will not be practical now. As I said before, well done 

 

We know what is best for you = nanny state.

[be-zed]

As you may of guessed by now Richard and myself are looking after the next competition track event to be run by the ZCCQ . As this is a club day ,we are looking at the types of events would best suit a verity of club members, invited clubs and forum members It will be on the 17th May 2014 but I am waiting to hear back from Queensland raceways about what we can do in a fixed price day hire event.  I have made a number of requests.

The ZCCQ will not be making any money from this event and in fact may run at a small lost . Safety will be a primary issue in anything we do and we will comply with all requirements set out by QR for any events we run. This is about providing something that you may not be able to get at other events or at least a stepping stone to other events.

We will need all the support we can get to make this work. Please help. 

[dat2kman]

Throwaway comments like

Nanny state

Well done

Etc, from a Lakeside protagonist, ha! It is Lakeside that is now making these compulsory for race events.

 

You have cars that have cost you what, 20,30,40,50 k, you pay series fees, entry fees,each year, to play, you spend plenty getting to and fro, and on accomodation, you think nothing of buying the fastest and the best, etc

 

AND now you whinge and bitch and moan about a one off upgrade cost for a HANS, and a fresh helmet?

 

AND bring the club that has the potential to get something happening, at two of the most easy administatively run tracks in Austealia, down, all because of something that can and does save lives!

 

AND you are on the steering committee for NDN15.

 

Really letting us all know the true colours!

Priceless!

 

[PZG302]

The ZCCQ is noted for introducing members to motorsport, a look at the numbers of members competing in sprints for the first time indicates how successful that approach has been. The next step could have been to introduce sprinters to racing, at an event where the proceedings would have been carefully monitored and supervised with safety paramount. However due to the nanny state introduction of compulsory HANS devices for racing that option will not be practical now. As I said before, well done 

 

We know what is best for you = nanny state.

 

Richard, the  HANS device is only one of a selection of racewear you must have to go racing, and is not a substantial cost to do so. You are also required to wear a race suit, double layer minimum, though triple layer is encouraged, proper racing shoes/boots and gloves plus socks and a balaclava is also recommended. This is a big step up from the sprinters uniform of jeans, cotton long sleeve shirt and maybe some cheap driving shoes. Yeas a lot of sprinters wear suits, but I know a lot are only wearing single layer.

 

The car also needs a step up in preparation and safety equipment to go from sprints to race, cage and seat plus proper harnesses. And then you really need to get a log book for the car for AASA events, especially if you want to play down south at race events at Wakefield and Winton, let alone a CAMS log book for CAMS events, and then a whole raft of other standards come into play.

 

I don't see this as nanny state, I see it as risk mitigation for you, and also the poor bastard left to clean up your mess when it turn into a heap of shit and feathers. I have seen many bad on track incidents at race meetings from over 10 years as a fire marshall and medical chase car and FIV driver from state rounds to Indy and the F1 GP. They aren't nice when you turn up to find someone a bag of jelly or their neck snapped, or someone having to shove a pen in their throat to keep them a live whilst still trapped in the car.

 

Without these advances in driver safety equipment many more of us would be in boxes, wheel chairs or slobbering in a corner. Motorsport is dangerous, but we can make it as safe as possible to all participents on both sides of the fence, and if that costs extra, then so be it.

 

Aub, I think what you and the ZCCQ are trying to do is great, but those who want to take the next step to door to door racing should be made aware of what is needed, yes it is a fair investment to make the plunge into racing, and they should be encouraged, but unfortunatey its not as easy as some would like. It is still a hell of a lot easier than what it was 20 years ago to get a licence, prepare a car, get track time and play, but it should be a little difficult to make sure that the people who want to go racing treat it as the serious business it is.

 

If I can be of any assistance as a mentor for any one in the club who wants to go racing in terms of car prep., eligibility for the various sports car categories and the administration and what you need to do on the day, let me know. I am more than prepared to be someone's pit bitch for a meeting or two so they get to learn the ropes, including simple things like are the wheel nuts tight, pressures right and also on racing etiquette on and off the track.

 

I think with 20+ years of racing and 10+ years of marshaling I might know a little bit about this caper.

[PZG302]

Also, if you can get the try the racing day at a ZCCQ event, I wouldn't really look at doing it at Lakeside, people who haven't raced before and Lakeside would be a bad mix.

 

The clubman circuit at QR would be the safest circuit, yet it is a technically tricky circuit to drive, especially through the dip on the connection road, and will give people more than enough of an idea if they want to play door to door without the extra risks associated with making a mistake at Lakeside. Remember there is no CTRL Z when you banzai down the inside of someone and get it wrong in real life.....

[260DET]

It's nothing to do with me personally which would be clear if some reader's English comprehension was half decent. For the third time it's about potential participants and weather they have a HANS device and, if not, if they may wish to get one just to try some racing. It's very easy for the usual internet warriors to criticise but of course they don't put their hands up to actually help do anything constructive. Nor do they put their money where their mouth is, it's the ZCCQ which has to outlay the $ and it's the appointed club members who have to make responsible decisions that can involve a lot of club money.

 

Criticism doesn't bother me much personally because there are always those who hang around just waiting for the opportunity to criticise the doers. As far as I'm concerned they are nobodies but it's unfortunate when they criticise the club, by doing so in effect they criticise every single club member.

[260DET]

Also, if you can get the try the racing day at a ZCCQ event, I wouldn't really look at doing it at Lakeside, people who haven't raced before and Lakeside would be a bad mix.

 

The clubman circuit at QR would be the safest circuit, yet it is a technically tricky circuit to drive, especially through the dip on the connection road, and will give people more than enough of an idea if they want to play door to door without the extra risks associated with making a mistake at Lakeside. Remember there is no CTRL Z when you banzai down the inside of someone and get it wrong in real life.....

 

If the club could have run a 'try and see' racing event as part of a motorsport day then as far as I'm concerned anyone who tried anything other than a clean pass would be black flagged. The great thing about the club blokes who sprint is that they all respect each other and drive hard but fair so they, and any visitor, who wanted to try racing would have been in a much safer environment than most.

[PZG302]

If the club could have run a 'try and see' racing event as part of a motorsport day then as far as I'm concerned anyone who tried anything other than a clean pass would be black flagged. The great thing about the club blokes who sprint is that they all respect each other and drive hard but fair so they, and any visitor, who wanted to try racing would have been in a much safer environment than most.

 

Quite a few days you see the red mist descend in sprints, plus the fact you go out on the track at intervals, not all bunched up for a rolling start. Racing is quite different to sprints so to mitigate the risks, QR's Clubman circuit would be perfect in comparison to Lakeside where there is no run off if things do go pearshaped.

[dat2kman]

Qld Raceway will have far more opportunities to allow a grid of Z car Racing in with their other race groups, more so than  at the often reffered to as dangerous, Lakeside.

You are under QRO licensing and safety requirements,

NOT AASA

For sure dispensation for logbooks for a one off type event could be applied.

 

Few years back, the do-ers in the ZCCQ at the time, actually did this very thing, it worked fine then, as it would now.

Those that have had race experience, under AASA, QRO as well as CAMS, are more in a position to know the how what why and where, compared to those who have no idea, suggest something of interest, wants rules re-written, and spits baby dum-dums when it goes a bit pear shaped.

 

It is not that hard.

Alongside pZG302 offering to assist and mentor, I too, would be able to do likewise.

We've, along with a few others, have done a fair bit of this, over many years, as opposed to the odd day a year sprinter, who has minimal experience.

 

[peterrx5]

This is an event that I would love to have a crack at, but not sure about the requirements such as car configuration (Cage etc.) and driver experience and licence level/requirements.

 

May I take this opportunity to wish everyone a Very Merry Christmas and a Safe and Happy New Year.

 

Cheers

Peter

 

ALL NEW QR 300 ENDURO AT QUEENSLAND RACEWAY FOR THE FESTIVAL OF CARS

 

 

Queensland Raceways has announced the introduction of the all new QR 300 Enduro Race as part of the Festival of Cars at Queensland Raceway, 3rd-4th May 2014.

 

The new race format is based on the highly successful Wakefield 300 event held annually at Wakefield Park Raceway, and will see competitors complete 96 laps around the National Circuit for a total race distance of 300km.

 

The QR 300 will be open to all Sports Cars and Sedans, including (but not limited to) Improved Production, Sports Sedans, HQ's, Geminis and Excels. The minimum lap time around the National Circuit will be 1 minute and 22 seconds. Each vehicle entering the QR 300 must be driven by a minimum of two drivers with a maximum of three drivers for the event.

 

Queensland Raceways General Manager, Keith Lewis, said that the event will hopefully draw a wide range of cars and competitors to the circuit; including interstate drivers who currently compete in the Wakefield 300.

 

"The success of the event at Wakefield shows that there is definitely a large market for this type of race meeting. The plan is to run the event in 2014 to gauge the interest in a 300km enduro at Queensland Raceway, with the aim of running an 'East Coast Challenge' series with three events across three different circuits in 2015."

 

Supplementary Regulations and further details for the new event will be finalised over the coming weeks and released early in the New Year.

 

For more information please email events@qldraceways.com.au.

[PZG302]

Peter, the QR300 would be a huge step up for most from the 6 hour relay events that have been done in the past by the ZCCQ. The event is one car two to three drivers, and the field will have a huge disparity in times, probably not the best event to be having your first go at racing. The speed difference between the front runners and the tale end of the field will be scary, similar in relative terms to the CUE one hour series and we have all seen the scary speed difference in cars there.

 

The car prep is a huge step up from sprints, you need cage, seat harness, proper suit, gloves shoes, helmet HANS etc. So a decision not to be taken lightly. As I have said before it is now a hell of a lot easier to get into door to door racing than it was 20+ years ago when I first got my CAMS racing licence. Back then it generally took two cracks at the OLT to get a signature, just because, to make sure you were committed to getting your licence to race.

 

In my opinion the best events to dabble with a tow in the water would be a QR event at QR, safe track and a lot less pressure. As I have offered before if anyone is serious about having a crack at door to door racing I am more than willing to mentor in all facets from car and driver prep through to the admin and track etiquette on the day to get you started.

[260DET]

The club's survey shows that overwhelmingly people want to experience the challenge of Lakeside, not QR. The previous events we have held at Lakeside were very successful with a lot of positive feedback, to change to QR would be crazy.  I'm quite sure that we could run a fun, fast and safe racing segment but unfortunately we have been denied that opportunity.

[Mike260LW]

Merry Christmas everyone! Sorry, jumping into this discussion at a late stage but I wanted to make a contribution and observations. What's with the narking? A bit of a playground tiff really. Anyway, as a mostly "sprinter" and Tarmac rally participant (when funds allow), I got the opportunity to run as an "invited car" at the Shannon's Sports and Muscle car event a couple of years ago. Jason and a couple of other ZCCQ members with Tarmac rally spec cars got to play with the Sc historics. It was an absolutely fantastic experience which I would love to do again; and I'm sorry I missed the opportunity this year as I was overseas. So I would love to participate again in a flag to flag event. Leaving the HANS debate aside (I intend to buy and use one - how I would get my lardy-arsed frame out the passenger window of an upside down zed with a HANS on is another issue), I wanted to give my thoughts about this cherry-popping event that you veteran racers have probably forgotten about and sprinters haven't experienced.

 

A driver trainer once told me human beings are hard wired to processing information up to the speed of chasing game through a forrest!  Anything faster and we start dropping off or shedding/filtering info. The skill which is inherent or learnt is processing the important stuff and dumping the rest. In a flag to flag situation, for a newbee, there is so much going on around you compared to sprinting, it's a bit of an overload.  The thing I found, and was guilty of, was I could cope with the race craft but new inputs like marshal flags were not processed well. There is so much to be spatially aware of that, for a first time event, a less challenging circuit such as QR Clubman, as Matt suggested, May not be such a bad choice. Poor old QR is much maligned but all configurations are challenging. It is a lot more foregiving than Lakeside and will offer a driver a second chance if he embroiled in the heat of battle and misses a braking point.  My thoughts; but I'm up for it. I personally would like to compete against a variety of Zed period cars eg Alfa, Porsche, anything of period.  Cheers.