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Sports Car Racing?


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#1 260DET

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 02:05 PM

Thinking, what about a road registerable sports car racing series that would give cars from different eras a go? Allow certain mods, like unlimited tyre/wheel sizes, different engines providing the same maker and configuration and have restrictions such as minimum weights, penalties for any transmission other than a H pattern manual and so on. Basically the idea would be to restrict late model stuff like Porkers, Ferraris, allow improvements to older cars and keep out sports racers and kit sports cars.

Let's face it, there is nothing much available for us Z car drivers who would like to do proper racing with fast cars.

#2 be-zed

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 03:11 PM

Yeah:
But what if there was.
Would you enter?
What if it was just a 5 lap race to start with(flying start) and who here would be willing to go head to head over five laps?

#3 d3c0y

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 04:44 PM

I think this is a good idea, because as you know i am in the same boat as you are and i want to run flares and wats.

#4 260DET

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 07:02 PM

If something like I'm suggesting was around when I started motorsport then it would have been of interest to me and things are still pretty much the same as to what options you have. Basically sprints or targa. Zeds with big wheels and more grunt would look great racing too, particularly mixed with a variety of other sports cars.

#5 luvemfast

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 07:26 PM

And where's the incentive for Porkers and Ferrari's to get beaten by cheap Jap crap?
Would be dead before it began.
Build a car for a class.
Just sayin.........

#6 DreamZproject

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 07:35 PM

Z class racing? Z Vs. Z...

#7 44014

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 08:06 PM

Yer i would be keen on that.

#8 dat2kman

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 09:04 PM

What,
Like CAMS rules Group 2B Sports cars,
Or for unmodded, lower budget entry level, 2F Sports cars.
Or
A year cutoff date of say December 1976
Historic Group S Sports Cars,
Or,
Lakeside's and Qld Raceway's own Outlaws class, for the very modified and not legally road registerable, like your 280ZXT with plastic windows, aero mods, fibreglass doorskins.

Plenty classes there, pick one build to the regs and go out and play.

To setup a pure Z class only, ie S30/S130, fat rims, flares ok, triple carbs, DOT rubber, caged and drivers licensed up ( AASA, or CAMS or even the stand alone QRO -not part of AASA anymore) for an event operator to be prepared to give a "one off" class/group it's own grids, you'd need min numbers, at some tracks, ie PI, Sandown, EC, at least 20 cars, before organiser will even consider it.
The drama is, getting the minimum numbers.
Bathurst is at least 40, any less they laugh at you.

Where would McKeon's Z fit in,?
Sinisha's?
Merit in the idea, but we need numbers, and to get the numbers at each and every event is a tall ask!

Someone in Z club in , say Qld could approach QRO, as they have numbers, and QRO licensing as extremely easy to obtain, and buy/purchase a grid for proper door to door races, and then try to get the entries rolling in.
Unfortunately, too many " Gunna's" to risk it,,,, or maybe not?

#9 260DET

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 10:29 PM

Not only Zeds, other older sports cars that could be upgraded so they could be competitive with newer ones too, maybe have a max retail price cutoff for the late model stuff.  Thinking aloud really.

#10 PZG302

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 10:47 AM

Prod.sports already caters for this. But you need to run to the rules, so engine swaps are out, l series only in s30 and s130 cars.
My old zed was reasonably competitive, up here in Qld it was a consistent top 5 car in 2b or  a top 10 car overall.

The rules are restrictive in that big dollars are needed to be at the very pointy end. But that is the same for any category.

Get a few zeds running and you will be dicing with each other mx5's.

If any one is serious about having a play in Qld in prod sports, message me and I will put you in contact with the relevant PSCRAQ commitee member and can also give you a hand with making sure the car is eligible for either 2b or 2f. A zed close to sc spec will be close to 2f, and if compliant would be reasonably competitive if able to go around Lakeside in 64's to 62's, though the really quick 2f mazdas are doing 58's. But there are people dicing all through the field with the back markers lapping in the 66's, which my road mx does, so there us no excuse not to come and play.

There are a few older cars that come out and play occaisionally, like a tr6, an early 70's 911.

John McKeon's 240 is a 2b spec car and would still be quite competitive in Qld.

#11 be-zed

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 01:47 PM

Let me ask this same question in an other form. What if a group of sprinters from an open sprint or club day decided  to have a five lap flag to flag race and you were there on the day, would you put your car on the line so to speak? Regardless of any rules other than safety and what sprinters run under in their classes.
I am not being smart here .I have a genuine need to know if people would do it if the opportunity arose.

#12 260DET

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 06:54 PM

Have looked at the those rules Matt, without more aero freedom and engine changes the old cars would not be competitive and or too expensive. IPRA have the right idea with engines, getting RB equivalent power out of an L series is possible but would cost a bomb. Plus the RB would be more reliable and durable.

#13 d3c0y

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 07:21 PM

Let me ask this same question in an other form. What if a group of sprinters from an open sprint or club day decided  to have a five lap flag to flag race and you were there on the day, would you put your car on the line so to speak? Regardless of any rules other than safety and what sprinters run under in their classes.
I am not being smart here .I have a genuine need to know if people would do it if the opportunity arose.



I think that is the best way to start a new class. Just get some of us together unofficially and just do it in some other class. People will want to get involved and it will grow naturally. I'm willing to run my car with RB powered cars too.

#14 PZG302

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 08:08 PM

Let me ask this same question in an other form. What if a group of sprinters from an open sprint or club day decided  to have a five lap flag to flag race and you were there on the day, would you put your car on the line so to speak? Regardless of any rules other than safety and what sprinters run under in their classes.
I am not being smart here .I have a genuine need to know if people would do it if the opportunity arose.


Aub, definitely wouldn't happen with CAMS and with the year that QR have had I would imagine they may be a bit reluctant to have this happen, but always worth asking the question.

Jake, new class won't happen for old sports cars, already have too many in some ways with the cams classes and now modern sports down south in AASA and the outlaw class up here that runs pretty much everything.

If you want to race your car Jake, spend this year doing open sprints to get the events up and get a QR race licence and have a run with PSCRAQ at AASA meetings towards the end of the year. Your car should meet all requirements, but if you like I can come and have a look at the Christmas break and go over it and any planned developments for you so you can play with the big boys, also gives me an excuse to be down at Racer Industries to get a new seat for the S14.

#15 d3c0y

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 11:17 PM

I agree that's why i said just make it unofficial, enter with friends in a class they may not be competitive but just keep your own score?


I've given up on making mine a proper race car thanks. When i have the space i'll just buy a done one and yes the current one will be going to sprints and what not.
I'm taking the R6 out QR in January, way cheaper to race that!

#16 dat2kman

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 08:12 AM

Let me ask this same question in an other form. What if a group of sprinters from an open sprint or club day decided  to have a five lap flag to flag race and you were there on the day, would you put your car on the line so to speak? Regardless of any rules other than safety and what sprinters run under in their classes.
I am not being smart here .I have a genuine need to know if people would do it if the opportunity arose.

Aub,
I'd be in that in a flash!
In one Datsun or another, or even an old rally Datsun on tarmac tyres!
One thing, as the Z owners value their cars a bit more than most, the race events would tend to be more "polite" and hopefully all finish unscathed.
If it was to happen, it would only be under a QRO's track using their licensing.
As far as numbers, if you restrict it purely to Z club members, you would get plenty of "gunnas" but
not enough " do-ers" to fill the required grid to make it not only pay, but to make it spectator worthy.

Maybe run one block/grid as Sprints/Regularity, and a second block/grid as Racing.
HRCC use QRO to do exactly this, but have the numbers to occupy four blocks.
It would need to be done only on a QRO race meeting, not their sprints meets, as their Race days will have full marshalls and safety teams.

#17 PZG302

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 03:00 PM

And the blocks for next year would already be sold for the race meetings by now, to make it even harder.

As I understand it, you buy a block for 20 cars and then on sell the spaces. With PSCRAQ and what they charge the members to run they need 20 cars to break even and the b locks are paid up front so if the cars don't show up the block purchaser and not QR loses the money, so if this is going to be done and a block can be bought, someone with deep pockets and prepared to wear the risk of not getting 20 cars showing up, which is very much more than likely to happen.

#18 260DET

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 04:26 PM

Should the ZCCQ decide to run a race segment some time, then in my opinion it should be restricted to Z cars, Jason note. And I am usually on these sorts of organising committees.

#19 dat2kman

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 05:27 PM

I can just hear Peter Hetho screaming,
"What about me----it isn't fair, i drive a Mazda, and i'm on the chair!"

Better to be flexible and full, with variety, rather than stodgy and too restrictive!
There are not enough Z's in Qld to do more than a "once off" day!!

Late last year i put a call out for non Group S cars, ie Zeds to the ZCCQ guys that have suitable cars that would very eadily have fitted in to Group S and T, but not one, nadda, nothing , zip, showed.
It was to
A, get some Z sprinters into full races,
And
B, fill up a grid to break even on cost of a block, it was run at a loss.

HRCC buy blocks of 20 break even is 16 cars at $270 per car for TWO days racing.
A QRO TopGear race meet in 2014, just may, if lucky have a grid avail, as a once off

#20 1600dave

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 06:45 PM

The biggest problem I see with forming a new category / limiting stuff to Zeds only / etc is purely and simply numbers. It is hard enough to get enough competitors without restricting the pool you can draw them from. There are, as mentioned, numerous categories in place already to suit relatively standard / modified / historic / modern / etc. Then there is AASA / CAMS / etc. As well as reducing the pool of possible competitors, there is also the issue of a new category actually getting a run - most of the organisers (down here in NSW anyway) already have categories filling their card. As an example, FoSC have historic tourers, historic sportscars, regularity, historic racers (open wheelers, etc), and more recently Excels, Clubmans (Clubmen ??), and even sidecar events. The Phillip Island classic already drops a group or groups each year on a rotating basis as they have more categories than they can fit into the 3-day event. To add another category to the card would involve either dropping an existing category, or lowering the number of events per meeting for each category. Neither of which would be appealing to existing competitors, nor to organisers who would have to take a chance that the proposed new category would get the entrants required to pay the bills.

As far as limiting club events to a smaller group, you only need to look at the ZCCQ entry into the PI 6 hour last year - 2 x Datsun 1600's, one Fairlady, one Mazda RX5 and one 350Z (is that still considered a zed ?? ) made up the numbers with (from memory) 5 zeds in the two teams. Without those "extras", there would have been only one team. Same with the assault on Bathurst in 2010. The "others", whether they are, in the above cases, members of the ZCCQ with other models / makes, or in the case of "sports car racing", other types of sports car, are needed to ensure the financial viability of these events.

Without meaning this to be personal, the problem seems to be that people build cars that fall squarely in between a number of existing categories - too new for some, too old for others, too modified for some, not modified enough for others. The notion of "make a category to suit my car" just isn't reasonable.









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