Jump to content


Photo

Finding a racing class for the L34


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#1 d3c0y

d3c0y

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,847 posts
  • Website:http://garagesanmaru.com
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Tagline:Forum Jerk

Posted 12 November 2013 - 04:16 PM

OK so i'm trying to find a class i can build my car to run in.


The big thing is being able to run an 3.4L L28 seem to be a bit of a tough ask. I was hoping it would fit into the tarmac rally class but after reading the rules its not looking good.

#2 dat2kman

dat2kman

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,029 posts
  • Location:Newport Waters Qld
  • Tagline:going sailing, see ya later!

Posted 12 November 2013 - 04:29 PM

Tarmac rally limit capacity to a % above a certain size for the model, hence the number of 3.0, or 3.1's.

Jake, you've seen some historic stuff, thats prob not for you, but as a crawl before you walk then run kinda thing, spend a year ( 4 events only!) at Morg Park doing Supersprints with some of the Z club Qld guts, dont need to be a member of Z club to run the MP sprints, any CAMS club, so as to buy a " L2S" annual Speed Event license.
Its clock racing, but you are on track with others.
It gives you a bit of an idea.
For full on CAMS, stuff Morgan Park do run Sports Cars,races, ie mazda mx5's etc as well.

Other option, and this is all out balls and all racing, QR and Lakeside run plenty of events called "Outlaws" these are run what ya brung, if you are quick enough, you're out front, out of harms way, but to start off, hang at back, and watch it all happen.
Youtube search Outlaws QR or Lakeside.
Car needs a cage, basic safetys, and you need some safetys. Get a HANS too!

Right, one question, have you now got rid of your girlfriend?
Last time i saw you, SHE was adamant, you were not gonna come racing!
I did tell her i'd be gentle!

To do the QR/Lakeside, no need to join any club etc, just buy their National full type license, easy to get compared to a CAMS licence

#3 Zedman240®

Zedman240®

    The 2000+ club

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,198 posts
  • Location:Way out SE Melbourne
  • Tagline:I want your old SHOGUN bike! PM me now...

Posted 12 November 2013 - 05:04 PM

Would it be possible to run in Regularity class?

#4 dat2kman

dat2kman

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,029 posts
  • Location:Newport Waters Qld
  • Tagline:going sailing, see ya later!

Posted 12 November 2013 - 06:56 PM

Yes Regularity groups, run by HRCC at Morgan Pk at their two Historic meetings are an option, no "racing" though, but, hey, it's all fun.
Dont need to register like you have to to run the SuperSprint series.
Also HRCC run, in late February, a two day event, lowkey, Saturday for testing sessions, Sunday is Supersprints. That weekend, pls the two HRCC meeting, you'll have had enuf of MP.

The events run at QR and Lakeside do not follow CAMS event procedures, its basically 10-15 cars go out single file, and belt around for 15 minutes, usually 5-6 groups, you get around four or five 15 minute sessions, they call these Open Sprints.

Jake,,,, by time you have spent the $67 to build and prep your car, ( for your missus!!) you could have just bought a car ready to race, in every State in Aus, in many events, including Australian Championship Hillclimbs, Historic race meets, normal race meets, as well as sprints type events. And be a bit cheaper than your $67 car, maybe!

#5 260DET

260DET

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,150 posts
  • Location:Warwick
  • Tagline:Tribal Elder

Posted 13 November 2013 - 08:25 AM

In Q it does not really matter because most events will have a class to suit your car, be it at Morgan Park, QR, Lakeside or any number of one off street circuits. If you like the idea of a weekend away with the blokes then the MP sprint series may be for you, the Z Car Club Q often have up to 20 members running there but you have to be quick to get an entry in for next year. Other than that have a look at the QR online calendar to get an idea of what's on there and at Lakeside.

#6 d3c0y

d3c0y

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,847 posts
  • Website:http://garagesanmaru.com
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Tagline:Forum Jerk

Posted 13 November 2013 - 08:51 AM

Haha she only says that because of PZG302's stack and watching first hand that really nice blue 240Z getting T-boned by the yellow Stanza at LapZ a couple of years back.
Also we aren't married so my money is still my money  8) .



I'm fine with starting out in sprints, but this is more to do with building the car. I'm up to doing suspension and brakes so that determines a lot of what i can do here. The drive line is already done (L34, Kameari CR box, 4.3LSD from STi).


That US silver race car that was posted by Richard is probably exactly what i should buy too, especially for the economics of the whole thing. But the issues i have with that are:
a) no where to keep it
b) no where to keep a car trailer
c) what do I do with my current Z?


I have no problems with Historic racing, I like old cars so why wouldn't I like racing them? I don't get why people who love old cars aren't into it.
The real problem here, is there's no way my zed will be allowed in with that motor obviously, as you basically have to have a stock car. And let's be honest if i was serious about group Sc i would just buy a 911 haha.


I remember you mentioning outlaws, but I'm not keen on getting leaned on around the corners etc, it's a nice car and i don't want it to be trashed. I also doubt my motor will let me be out the front of that class (to avoid everyone).


Cams Tarmac rules said 1.5mm overbore is ok (mine is 3mm) , but then i'm using an N42 block not a P30 so what's the rules there?


Thanks for the suggestion Zedman but regularity isn't for me.

#7 d3c0y

d3c0y

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,847 posts
  • Website:http://garagesanmaru.com
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Tagline:Forum Jerk

Posted 13 November 2013 - 08:56 AM

In Q it does not really matter because most events will have a class to suit your car, be it at Morgan Park, QR, Lakeside or any number of one off street circuits. If you like the idea of a weekend away with the blokes then the MP sprint series may be for you, the Z Car Club Q often have up to 20 members running there but you have to be quick to get an entry in for next year. Other than that have a look at the QR online calendar to get an idea of what's on there and at Lakeside.



You mean sprint events right?
I was hoping to build it for more than sprints, partially to get a bit better resale value on the car and do some other types of events, like Targa. At the rate my car's going it won't be back on the road for a while :-\ . I basically have to make a call on flaring it now because i only have wide wheels for it at the moment. Then i had this idea about racing it, which generally you can't flare it in any classes and I need to replace some suspension components which again will be dictated by rules.

#8 dat2kman

dat2kman

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,029 posts
  • Location:Newport Waters Qld
  • Tagline:going sailing, see ya later!

Posted 13 November 2013 - 10:51 AM

Pzg302 ran his green car in ProdSports, the classes within, for Group 2 category sports cars are,
2A for special built chassis frame type cars, highly modified,
2B for Production cars with modifications
And
2F for bog stock un modded.
I'm sure Matt can pist up a link?
These classes etc are a CAMS thing, but, with QR/Lakeside utilising these cars under their system, the rules and regs can be a bit open. Also, i think?, they dont require logbooks ( but if you do a CAMS event at MP , you will need a logbook) they are not hard to obtain. ( matt may still have his for green car?? )
Not talking sprints here, but, racing , so consider setting car up for future use, as well as sprints.

The other situation, certainly here in Qld, in the fields for ProdSports group 2, is lack of entrants, so if you were to rock up to QR/Lakeside, with a caged prepped Z  no logbook ( yet!) running a 3.4, you would be given a run.

There'll be a Corvette, a couple of turbo MX5's one or two Sylvia's, you in the Z, and then a dozen or so MX5's behind you.
The ProdSports guys take a dim view, as do Outlaws, on any leaning or aggresiveness, if you do, you'll get spoken to!
The track operators want clean racing, they want you and your money, to come back.

Food for thought!

#9 d3c0y

d3c0y

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,847 posts
  • Website:http://garagesanmaru.com
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Tagline:Forum Jerk

Posted 13 November 2013 - 11:05 AM

That sounds like the ticket, I think with 360HP and a chassis around 1000kg it should be pretty competitive against those kind of cars.

I'm guessing you cant run flares and 9.5" wheels though. Matt would have run 2B right?

In regard to rubbing i guess it's up to me really isn't it? Throw it up the inside or keep out of trouble, your choice.




NB just checked the cams site and there is some pretty crazy modern stuff allowed in 2B!
http://docs.cams.com...bleVehicles.pdf


I'll just have to hope there arent too many Porsche GT2s, Lamborghini Diablos and Dodge Vipers being entered...

#10 PZG302

PZG302

    The 1000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,751 posts
  • Location:Brisvegas or the Big Durian

Posted 13 November 2013 - 12:29 PM

Jake, for your car to go racing in Qld you are limited to two groups.

AASA - run in outlaws or with prod sports.

CAMS - run with prodsports or sports cars.

In AASA if you want to run with prodsports you have to run to CAMS rules anyway, so it's 2B for you.

Wherever you run, get a CAMS compliant and certified cage, good seat and HANS device. Also get the car log booked for CAMS, this will add the most value when it comes to resell time.

In Cams you can currently run in sports cars at the Qld state meetings at Morgan Park, but you will be against not a lot of cars unless prod sports are running, and then you are up against everything from clubmans to porsche cup cars. I won't race against clubmans, too dangerous you can't see them and I have seen one run over by another car at Amaroo, not nice.

For 2B, you need to join PSCRAQ, this will let you register for the Championship up here and also let you play in the CUE one hour enduros which are run in NSW, Vic and Qld each year, this is where the old GT3 cars end up running with us.

In Qld the field is generally MX5's, a couple of C7 corvettes, a couple of Loti, a GTR and a Mosler. Once the S14 is finished then one of them too.

PSCRAQ for this year hav tightened up on the eligibility of cars and been checking mods for both 2B and 2F. They have also introduced a driver standards officer, who is also the eligibility officer, who is independent of all competitors so no collusion or cheating. The systems seem to work well.

For your car it will have to be 2B due to engine. Competitive, not sure, the better 2F Mx5's are doing 58's round lakeside, the Vette's and GTR are doing 54's not really trying.

For 2B, you will need slicks to play at front, though tyres are free. Also suspension, what have you done??? this is where the cars are fast, not just power. What are the brake mods??? You can run flares. but check the rules, you are allowed a certain size flare and only increase total trak by 100mm over standard, also depending on weight you are limited to a total of 40" of wheels for under 1100kg and 44" of wheels over that weight. Check the manual to get final figure.

I only kept my Zed for as long as I did because I couldn't afford to upgrade, the prang forced my hand. The plan for me was to build a new car, and if I could keep the Zed set it up for hill climbs where it would be competitive with different brakes and a lot softer set up. In my opinion, a Zed is outgunned these days by cheaper equipment that will go faster. I had a tick under 200rwhp, 960kg and could play with the front running 2F cars. The panels are expensive to replace and I didn't go another Zed shell when the worst happened as I got a S14 shell for $1,500. The cheapest Zed shell I could find was $4k and needed another $10k of work to get it ready to put a cage in.

In terms of the racing up here, it is generally hard but fair, there a couple of guys that are a worry, but panel rubbing isn't the norm and definitely not encouraged. The comradery is good between everyone.

If you want any more info PM me and we can go from there.

Matt

#11 d3c0y

d3c0y

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,847 posts
  • Website:http://garagesanmaru.com
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Tagline:Forum Jerk

Posted 13 November 2013 - 12:57 PM

I should have another 100rwhp on your car and a fair bit more torque with 393Nm. I have boxster 968 brembos (2.5kg each) on 300mm rotors all round and i haven't done the suspension yet while trying to choose a class. It will be a full rose joint setup with A arms and maybe an S14 front end. Again this is down to rules. What sort of power and weights are these MX5s running? A current model stock GTR is running 313hp/ton so i should be just a little bit over that 342hp/ton.


100mm track thing is a pretty limiting factor though isn't it and it's only 5cm extra per side? 40" is 10" on all corners so no problems there. What width rims was your car running, it was a 9" rears with no flares right?


Thing big thing for me is in 2B i can have the car flared for the street and just put appropriate wheels on it for the track. Sure it will look silly on the track but that doesn't really matter.

#12 260DET

260DET

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,150 posts
  • Location:Warwick
  • Tagline:Tribal Elder

Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:42 PM

Best shot would be to read the 2B rules wouldn't it and then ask Matt? Anyway, link here http://docs.cams.com...17_Group_2B.pdf

Looks like a kick axe rear wing can be used although front aero is significantly restricted by the rules, please please make sure that the most suitable aero available is used because it does not cost that much and can make a huge difference in lap times. It may be possible to fit a diffuser undertray like Sinisha has, there is sure to be a bit of room to move within the rules there. Aero, badly neglected by most Q Zeds.

#13 PZG302

PZG302

    The 1000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,751 posts
  • Location:Brisvegas or the Big Durian

Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:51 PM

I should have another 100rwhp on your car and a fair bit more torque with 393Nm. I have boxster 968 brembos (2.5kg each) on 300mm rotors all round and i haven't done the suspension yet while trying to choose a class. It will be a full rose joint setup with A arms and maybe an S14 front end. Again this is down to rules. What sort of power and weights are these MX5s running? A current model stock GTR is running 313hp/ton so i should be just a little bit over that 342hp/ton.


100mm track thing is a pretty limiting factor though isn't it and it's only 5cm extra per side? 40" is 10" on all corners so no problems there. What width rims was your car running, it was a 9" rears with no flares right?


Thing big thing for me is in 2B i can have the car flared for the street and just put appropriate wheels on it for the track. Sure it will look silly on the track but that doesn't really matter.


Check the rules for suspension, whilst rose jointing the front end is OK the S14 front end more than likely isn't. Also you have limited amounts you can move mounts and mounting holes.

Also check rules when building your cage, no through the fire wall to strut towers, nor can you have a brace from the front towers to the firewall. If not already, seam weld the shell, only way to stop the chassis rails moving, and they will, they are looong compared to most cars.

The good 2F mazdas are getting 200-220hp at the fly and weigh 960-980kg in 2F trim. Power isn't the be all and end all of these cars, or any sports cars. Get the handling right and you don't need huge power. My car was 960kg wet with the only fibreglass panel being the bonnet. Guards were steel, but lighter than fibreglass. I ran perspex windows, 3mm for the side and 1.8mm for the hatch, glass screen as per the rules. Interior was gutted and I could have gotten another 10kg or so with wiring changes and 'glass hatch. The lighter weight will give you more advantage than extra power.

Also aero is limited, again read the rules but basically what you would want to run will be illegal, especially for the front. Best to stick with a MKII spoiler on the front and an IMSA 3 piece wing on the back, modified slightly, Biscuit balls on here was going to make one for me but the wall intervened before he started. rear wing has to be single chord, no higher than 250mm from the rear of the hatch, no further rearward than the bumper and no more than 400mm wide and no wider than the body at the point it is mounted. Best rear aero for a Zed would be a cut down Group C RX7 bird bath. I happen to have one that needs to be cut down, so good to make a mould from.

Diffusers are basically banned and front tray is too limited to be of much use, only allowed to go back as far as the front edge of the tyre IIRC. Personally I would build the car to be as insensitive to aero as possible, you will break bits with other cars around. The S14 will be built with a spoiler on the back similar to a bird bath, front airdam and that's it. If I biff the front I hopefully won't have issues with turn in that can and does happen with more aero sensitive cars like Porsches and Loti.

The big thing that will hurt is the car is 40 years old and technology has moved on so far in that time. The rules basically keep you in that 40 year time warp. Even the NA MX'x are on the way out when it costs $40-50k to build one and cheaper faster cars can be easily built.

I was running 18x8" -2mm offset all round with subtle flares, front guards were pulled and rears were tubbed for the inners and ran a zuki sierra flare on the rear. Suspension was standard struts with the spring perches dropped 2 inches, running standard length lovells springs at 450/420 lp/in IIRC and Koni adjustable shocks revalved to suit the springs.

As I said, if you need further info PM me and we cango from there, probably easier to explain over the phone or a beer.

#14 be-zed

be-zed

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 262 posts
  • Location:QLD Waterford

Posted 13 November 2013 - 02:27 PM

Jake these guys have given you a world of  valuable information and knowing most of them I can say, it is all sound  They have given you more choices than you can poke a stick at .
But if your lady doesn't have a problem with you entering a LAPZ event. Then I am in the process of organising (with Dusty) an other event at Lakeside for sometime in May ,June 2014. You will have a chance to see how it goes up against a lot of Zeds and fast Nissans and we would glad to have you join us.We will try to keep the entry fee under or around $150 for 4 runs of 5 timed laps  and up to 15 cars per group. So Jake if you come on board this the other lot may do so as well.

#15 d3c0y

d3c0y

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,847 posts
  • Website:http://garagesanmaru.com
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Tagline:Forum Jerk

Posted 13 November 2013 - 02:36 PM

Best shot would be to read the 2B rules wouldn't it and then ask Matt? Anyway, link here http://docs.cams.com...17_Group_2B.pdf



I have been reading the rules that's how i could comment on some of them and question others. I don't know how closely people follow these rules or what you can get away with, so i'm trying to get a feel for it. The rest of the build is hinging on this and i dont want to go down the path spending a ton of money only to end up with completely noncompetitive car.

#16 PZG302

PZG302

    The 1000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,751 posts
  • Location:Brisvegas or the Big Durian

Posted 13 November 2013 - 02:49 PM

Build it to the rule book. As I said PSCRAQ now have an eligibility officer. If you want to have a go and your car is close you will be able to run as an invited car to see if you like it, but you will be expected to make your car legal, or get a legal car after a couple of events.

It also means you can race anywhere else as a 2B car not be pinged for anything.

If in doubt read the rule book, if still unsure get in touch with me and if I can't help I can put you onto guys who will know.

If you aren't after plastic trophies to gather dust, there are cars to play with all the way down the field, so don't worry about being uncompetitive. In Qld if you can do lakeside consistently in the 63's in traffic, you will go close to getting a place in the 2B championship. To win you have to do 54's all day and not break down, no S30/S130 Zed will do that that is 2B legal.

My car went from a top 5 car in NSW in the mid to late '90's to being passed by road registered MX5's ten years later at Eastern Creek and running in the last 5. Was still fun, just cost a lot of money to rebuild the car and get it back to where it should be. Smashed piston lands make it hard to keep compression in the motor........

#17 d3c0y

d3c0y

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,847 posts
  • Website:http://garagesanmaru.com
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Tagline:Forum Jerk

Posted 13 November 2013 - 03:00 PM

Jake these guys have given you a world of  valuable information and knowing most of them I can say, it is all sound  They have given you more choices than you can poke a stick at .
But if your lady doesn't have a problem with you entering a LAPZ event. Then I am in the process of organising (with Dusty) an other event at Lakeside for sometime in May ,June 2014. You will have a chance to see how it goes up against a lot of Zeds and fast Nissans and we would glad to have you join us.We will try to keep the entry fee under or around $150 for 4 runs of 5 timed laps  and up to 15 cars per group. So Jake if you come on board this the other lot may do so as well.



I definitely plan on attending a lapZ as soon as possible. I know quite a few people form earlier zed club days (circ 2002) and you and I have even met before way back at the Zed Workshop.
As I keep saying to even get my zed back on the road, I need to nail down a class so it can have suspension again. There are really only 2 options - outlaw and 2B (hopefully targa too) and I don't want to run outlaw.


Hopefully the motor should be the last of my problems!
Thanks for the all the info Matt, i will PM you shortly. I was trying to keep it going so there was some interesting discussion going on the forum, beside the usual "engine not starting" and "do these wheels fit?" questions.

#18 PZG302

PZG302

    The 1000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,751 posts
  • Location:Brisvegas or the Big Durian

Posted 13 November 2013 - 03:12 PM

No worries Jake, but I don't think too many more would be able to help with the specifics of running in 2B ;D

#19 d3c0y

d3c0y

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,847 posts
  • Website:http://garagesanmaru.com
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Tagline:Forum Jerk

Posted 13 November 2013 - 03:24 PM

Lol yeah i know that haha, just thought it might be an interesting read. Looks like Targa 5E Modified Sport is a goer too, but no flares seems to be the big thing.
I wonder if have flares fitted but run legal wheels where the flares clearly dont do anything whether they will not let me run? This is more a Targa question as in 2B it will be legal to have pointless flares lol.


Thanks for all the input too guys.



#20 PZG302

PZG302

    The 1000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,751 posts
  • Location:Brisvegas or the Big Durian

Posted 13 November 2013 - 03:51 PM

Looks like a bit of thinking to do then. To build a circuit car is very different to a Targa car. To do both will compromise the set up for either. To build for one will lead to a bad set up for the other, though having said that, the targa set up will work on the track better than the circuit setup will on a targa stage.

Cages are very different and the targa rules give a few more freedoms for the cage to provide stiffeneing to the chassis, and maybe go through the fire wall for a tower to tower cage. Though build a cage like that and the car won't be fully legal for 2B, only a problem if someone get a bit narky.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users