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Muscle Car Masters Sydney 2013


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#1 dat2kman

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 06:52 AM

This event was run recently, plenty of original old Group C and A touring cars,
BUT,
Full kudos to the gaggle of Z cars that were running in the races for replica fake "Historic" production sports cars, yes Group S.
James Flett, from MIA Engines in Brookvale took out not only top honours all weekend in his 260Z, but, due to penalty imposed on Rusty French in the ex Perry Spiridis illegal DeTomato Panstera, won outright, the feature trophy race for Group S cars!
Well done!
James is not an Auszcar forum member, so this won'y go to his head!
Also running was Wayne Pottsm, in a LHD 280Z, Chris Grey, Geoff Pearson, Russel Stanforth, in 240Z's

Results over on Natsoft, track being used was the one with the new extension at turn 5

If anyone finds photos or vids, please post up.

Datsuns RULE!

Looks like we have a new king on the engine building heap!

#2 Agno

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 07:29 AM

Hey Jason, do you know what was deemed illegal on Rusty's pants-tearer? I know for a fact that Perry went to great lengths to keep that car within the rules.

Good result for the Datsuns though!

#3 dat2kman

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 08:05 AM

Rubbish! It has a wrong intake manifold and engine hatch cover, it has been "logbooked" by CAMS elegibility guys, Rusty bought it like that, Perry has been running it like that for years. No one in CAMS elegibility in Victoria knows what they are doing.
There is a white Mustang also, that plays wwappsies with bits but it's owner has mates in high places.
High enuf to get certain genuine historic category cars banned from entering certain events in certain States.

Aparently some million dollar car owners take great offence at being thouroghly nailed by little crappy shitebox Datsuns.

#4 Riceburner

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:35 AM

Great stuff, +1 would love to see some footage. Surely one of these guys has in car videos?

Is that the James Flett who's red/white/blue race  :)260 was at the nationals? The manifold on that thing was certainly not stock, in fact the only slight resemblance it had to a stock item was the twin SU's hanging off the end.

#5 Agno

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:40 AM

Rubbish! It has a wrong intake manifold and engine hatch cover, it has been "logbooked" by CAMS elegibility guys, Rusty bought it like that, Perry has been running it like that for years. No one in CAMS elegibility in Victoria knows what they are doing.
There is a white Mustang also, that plays wwappsies with bits but it's owner has mates in high places.
High enuf to get certain genuine historic category cars banned from entering certain events in certain States.

Aparently some million dollar car owners take great offence at being thouroghly nailed by little crappy shiverebox Datsuns.


Not here to start a shit fight, but that car was inspected by the race stewards after almost every single race so I don't understand how it can be deemed legal in one state and illegal in another. If we are going to talk about group s cars with illegal modifications then your white mustang barely scratches the surface!

#6 dat2kman

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 04:51 PM

Great stuff, +1 would love to see some footage. Surely one of these guys has in car videos?

Is that the James Flett who's red/white/blue race  :)260 was at the nationals? The manifold on that thing was certainly not stock, in fact the only slight resemblance it had to a stock item was the twin SU's hanging off the end.

Yes, that was James Flett's 260 at the Nats, a very neat well prepared car.
It lives on his dyno, almost!
In Group S, on a carby fed car, the intake manifold is "Free"
In a later injected car, ie 280Z and Porsche 2.7/3.0, intake manifold must remain, removal of metal internal is free.
As far as the DeTomato, it has an incorrect intake manifold and incorrect engine cover. The "race stewards" were not Historic Commision Elegibility people. None were appointed at this event.
What you may have seen were blokes in pale blue vests, these are ARDC or CAMS Scrutineers, these guys dont check elegibility and compliance.
I know M ( Rusty) French personally, he is aware of the issue, but contends that the car has geen "like this" for years, under Perry's ownership. It's just that no-one picked it up!

#7 Lurch ™

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 05:28 PM

Posted Image

#8 PZG302

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 06:33 PM

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+1    ;D ;D

#9 PeterAllen

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:39 PM

...If anyone finds photos or vids, please post up....


Posted Image


#10 Brabham

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 09:31 AM

What was the DeTomaso penalised for? It was only given a 5 sec penalty so can't have been too serious. Congratulations to James too, good to see the 260 win finally after being up the front for so long. Strangely a lot of the top 911's were absent though, don't know why this was, although noticed that most of these guys have moved into other historic categories ie A and C touring. Would love to have an engine built by James one day, one of the best L engine builders in Aus, just need to win the lottery first.

Jason are you still racing atm? It occured to me at MCM that how can the white mustang run, as it was in period, but with more allowances than other cars, yet your sports 2000 can not, surely they are both essentially group T cars are they not - ie cars that were raced liked this in period, with more mods than either Nc (mustang) or S (Datsun).

Cheers

#11 PZG302

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 01:07 PM

MCM is put on by Australian Muscle Car magazine and the meeting is run by the ARDC under a CAMS permit.

Some of the categories line up with the traditional CAMS categories, and some don't.

For a 5 second penalty to be applied to a car's times at the end of the race, then this would more than likely be for jumping the start.

As for the Mustang, if it ran in Group S, then it was/is a GT350 or GT500 replica, which were homologated for sports car racing back in the day. If it was running in Group N, then it could be the olf Geoghan Mustang that ran in improved production racing back in the day, which did allow for more freedoms than the current Group N rules, which are a compromise as it tries to regulate cars from the late fifties, Na, through to the end of 72, Nc and a big variation in category rules, old Appendix J through to series and improved production touring cars.

#12 Brabham

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 02:22 PM

It runs with Nc and is the aforementioned Mustang meaning that Jason's exclusion from a lot of events seems a tad unfair.

#13 1600dave

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 03:24 PM

But does the Mustang win regularly ?

#14 dat2kman

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 03:41 PM

The white Stang is the ex Geoghan car, now owned by the estate of Des Wall, his son David drives it.
Yes in appendix J, it is a famous and genuine car.
Just like the ex Mingay/Carter Datsun, now a Group T car.
CAMS Historic commission encourages event organisers to allow ALL historic categories a go, and places the Gp T cars, ( prod based sports) within Group S fields ( prod sports)

The Group S association make strong demands and threaten to boycott events if event organisers accept entries from genuine original prod based spirts cars, ie Gp T.

The Group S assoc is 150 members strong, and gets "listened to" hence no more Group T cars at VHRR Phillip Island or Winton Historic meetings.
In NSW the HSRCA, politely ignore these demands, and allow the proper cars to run.

The OTHER white Mustang, in Victoria, driven by a rather influential Victorian member of VHRR, may have taken umbrage, at, a, and it is in writing, as a "complaint" to the Historic Commission,,, "A crappy Red Datsun passed my very expensive car at a recent Phillip Island Historic meeting, i want it banned, i am rich" etc etc etc.

Even the pukka Austin Healey club of Victoria had a bloody huge public whinge about "old Datsuns"

God forbid if a genuine, with race history ex USA John Morton, Pete Brock or Bob Sharp original race 240Z was to be raced here in Australa!!

Cant have that now,,, can we!!!

By the way, I DID ENTER MCM13, brian Henderson in the Gp A Gazelle was all set to take me and the car down and back, but the ARDC rejected my paid entry and application, with NO readon given.

#15 dat2kman

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 12:21 PM

Some in life, are simply destined to be keyboard racers, others, on the other hand, get out and do something, they crawl, then walk, then run!
The running part, alongside 40 or so others, is at a level well above the keyboard racers, who, have NFI what they are on about!

Not only are we pushing for Gp T cars, but also for Gp U, ( genuine historic sports sedans)
We are getting there though!

The HRCC Qld, is holding a Sports Cars Carnival at Lakeside on 21/22 Sept, as pzg302 above, and at this stage there are low entries from the Qld Group S cars, atm, only 7. Of which two are Gp T, three are coming up from NSW.

I have put a proposal to HRCC that they consider opening up the field to other "invited" cars, of a production nature, with modifications in period, ie triple carby big braled wide rimmed 240 and 260 Z's

This will be discussed by HRCC early next week.
In meantime i have contacted a few of the ZCCQ members, to garner interst and let them know of the opportunity to come and race, with the slow ancient 40 year old real and fake cars.

This happened a couple years back, at QR, a few Z's turned up, ran with a few Gp S cars, and we all had a great time, so much so, many wish to do it again.

The stipulation of period type mods, unfortunately will not allow 260det's oddball ZX that is, apparently, so fast, it can only "race"???, on only THE fastest fifth gear circuits in the country, like PI, and soon, Bathurst!
( car setup is wrong, but what would I know!)

Anyway, hopefully, the HRCC agrees to the request to include pre 1976 Z's with mods, ie the regular MP Sprinter guys, and a few will get to have a play, in proper races!
Last year, John McKeon's red/yellow 240 ran with us, and that is a very modded car!

#16 zedevan

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 02:44 PM

include pre 1976 Z's with mods


Out of curiosity, why pre '76? Sorry if this is some obviously requirement for Group S cars - I've never looked into it

#17 PZG302

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 02:56 PM

Jason was one year out, Group S covers production sports cars manufactured from 1st January 1941 up to the 31 December 1977.

This group is then further split into groups Sa, Sb and Sc depending on year.

These cars aren't pukkahg race cars, that is you can get any example of the car and build it to the spec and play.

Jason's Group T Sports 2000 and his Chook Cooker for Group U are the real deal, that is they were built and raced in the period that the historic group caters for. As a result, the documentation that competitors are required to obtain, the CoD, takes time and sometimes a lot of dollars, and the value of the genuine cars is generally a lot more than the pretenders as the history and providence of the cars are documented extensively. In some cases cars are taken back to an earlier spec as the value will be more for that particular car at that point of time in it's history.

The credence for historic racing is:

As it was , so it shall be.

Something that is sometimes forgotten by a few competitors.

As a result of CAMS and the Historic Racing Commission, Australia has the most correct historic racing anywhere in the world, with all cars except for a few groups, namely N, S, Jb and Kb, having racing history and not changed from the specification they raced in for the era they represent.

#18 dat2kman

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 05:12 PM

Video.
James Flett in his 260Z, vs Porsche 2.7 ( it blows an engine on first lap) and the DeTomato Panty Tearer
Voila, enjoy!


Check out this video on YouTube:




If it doesnt work directly from above, please, someone embed it?

#19 Lurch ™

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 05:54 PM

Jase - unfortunately this forum does not allow YouTube videos to be embedded.

Your link works however ;)

#20 PZG302

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 06:01 PM

Gees, what a jig jog track they've turned EC into.........

Good vid, looking tat the wiper of the 260, I wonder how rusty felt with the non existent aero on the Pantstearer compared to a GT5 Pantstearer.....




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