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#41 MyEnquiringMind

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 09:43 PM

I am surprised by how this thread has grown...

Without even thinking about it too hard, I recognise that I would pay a lot of money for the "right" car... and as I have appreciated that over the years, after spending bazillions of dollars on modified Datsuns that the "right" car for me is an original car. I love the fact that my early Z is going up in value and not down... and in saying so, I recognise that keeping my car original costs more than modifying it in the first place...

I also know that I am definitely going to own an S20 in my lifetime, and it wont even have to be the "right" car... the possibility of owning a Z432 replica is high on the cards of my "want" list... a hakasuko very close behind... a real PS30 a dream, but again, if the "right" car comes along, then the boss is going to have a hard time convincing me not to do it...

I love the healthy debate and I love the broad spread of people and their passions on this forum... for right now, I have been distracted by an CSP311 that is begging to find a place in my garage ;) scandalous I know, but at least it is still Nissan :)

#42 NZeder

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:47 AM

for right now, I have been distracted by an CSP311 that is begging to find a place in my garage ;) scandalous I know, but at least it is still Nissan :)

Do it - they are a very cool little Nissan and very different, and rare too. I have never seen one in real life - I have seen a Toyota 2000 GT and a Merc C111 (one of match box toy I played with as a young boy along with a Lambo Miura and a Datsun 240z Speedkings - sort of explains why my 260z has flares and black bonnet as that is what the Speed king 240z was like ;)) I know I will never own the other 3, 2000GT, C111 and Miura but I have owned a number of zed ;)

The CSP311 is a special little car you have to consider that for sure.

#43 HS30-H

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:26 PM

An L24 with a factory race head i'm guessing? It must be a factory special with round exhaust ports and closed face chambers.
Impressively big ports on that thing, what sort of numbers does it flow on a flow bench? What diameter are the ports?
Pretty cool that is has the coolant pipe on the manifold too


It's the 11041-E4621 cylinder head, as seen in the FIA homologation papers for the H(L)S30 ( FIA 3023 / JAF GT-010 ). Internally at Nissan it was nicknamed the 'Safari' head, even though it was never used in anger on the E.A. Safari Rally. Essentially it was a 6 cylinder version of the 4-cyl FIA head, and was always intended to be used with Nissan's race 'ECGI' electronic injection system with triple side-draught throttle bodies.

You can see some details of the head on the homologation papers ( amendment 5/5V ). Compression ratio was intended to be 11.0:1 with a 36.2cc chamber. The heads were individually sand cast ( stock heads were die cast ) and the architecture was completely different to that of any of the stock production heads. The inlet manifold was used as a log to join the cooling passages together, and the cooling properties eliminated any hot spots / cool spots.

Assembled on an L24-base, capacity upped to around 2500cc within the rules, with the option E4621 narrow-journal high strength crank ( got one of those if you want a look ), narrow journal rods, 8-bolt 7kg flywheel and the full ECGI injection setup, it was given the internal reference code 'LR24-ERY'. They were used in Japanese circuit racing in late 1971 through 1973 in cars like the Omori 'spider' car in my forum avatar, sometimes alongside LY24-ERY ( 'LY' crossflow on injection ) equipped cars.

Remember that this was the period when people were saying that the American teams ( and BRE in particular ) had "taught" the Japanese race team staff at Nissan "how to tune the L24". In fact they already knew very well what they were doing. One of the main differences - and this carried on right through the BNR32 Gr.A GT-R era with the NISMO ( actually Reinik ) tuned RB26DETT being compared to that of the Gibson Motorsport team in Australia - was that Japanese domestic racing was more often concerned with endurance racing rather than sprints or multiple short events as seen in SCCA racing in the USA. The Japanese race engines were somewhat pegged-back in ultimate performance in order to make them last. It wasn't just about peak dyno figures.

I just find stuff like this endlessly interesting. It gives me a wry smile when I hear people talking about the "ultimate" L6 engine from their favourite tuner, when stuff like that above isn't really all that widely known.       

#44 peter mc

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 08:32 PM

Yes they were great in the day , and still engines like this make all Datsun people look and drool , and id love to own one , I have a 4 cylinder version ,  but things have moved on and engines have gotten so much better ,  and so have engine building technics and equipment  , the engines we are building  are making more hp and lasting longer  than ever before ,, I just wish Datsun , Nissan had built the cars with larger wheels and tires like some German cars so we could play on a more level play ground ,,,

#45 HS30-H

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 09:14 PM

Yes they were great in the day.......

.....but things have moved on and engines have gotten so much better ,  and so have engine building technics and equipment  , the engines we are building  are making more hp and lasting longer  than ever before


Yes, but so what? I don't want to appear flippant ( you're building some great engines, and more power to your elbow and all that ) but what's that got to do with this? This is why I keep thinking that some people don't really 'get' it. 

Do the people who buy Ferrari 250GTOs take off the carbs and put injection on them, put sat-nav in the dash and swap the wheels for forged 20" alloys with 30-section tyres? No, they don't. They want the oil painting, not the RAW image file on a memory stick.

 

#46 HS30-H

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 09:24 PM

....and still engines like this make all Datsun people look and drool....


If only more 'Datsun people' knew a bit about the ( racing ) heritage of the cars, and especially what the factory race teams were doing with them. In my opinion, we need MORE knowledge and awareness of that in our community.

Your average old 911 owner will know a lot more about the 911's racing heritage than your average old Z owner will about his car. You'll also see far more 'period correct' themed modified 911s than Zs, and that's a bit of a shame. It's also one of the reasons why the early Z doesn't get the respect it deserves, and why certain race sanctioning bodies give the early Z such a hard time. 


#47 thriller

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:01 PM

How's that book coming along ?

I'd love something in the vein of Shin Yoshikawa's 2000GT book, for Z's (hell there's a million of them for 911's). For now, some old Nostalgic Hero mags are doing the job. Don't understand a word of them, but it's nice to drool over the pics.

#48 NZeder

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 05:38 AM

It would nice if there was more of the kit around that the teams used too. I have 2 sets of mk63, some early 280zx rear brakes and the correct factory adapters to mount there 280zx rears. To begin with my car will run a stock l28 stock body work and jfz/Sierra 4 pots front and rear (local rules allow it, they are made from the original 70's foundry/moulds and I can run 11.4" rotor like the scca 4 wheel setup Datsun competition in the USA sold) later I will rebuild the mk63's I have and run the correct fia setup.

Other things I would like to find or build replica of is the direct drive dog leg gearbox. Having all the fia bits would be nice ie a head like that shown etc...but that is unlikely to happen unless some started selling them new.

#49 Gareth. J.

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 09:25 AM

Are there any books which focus on Japanese circuit racing in the late 60's to early 70's? This is all interesting stuff, I've never heard of or seen the 'Omori spider' before. It looks awesome!

#50 d3c0y

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 10:32 AM

Hey Allan, I would love to see more pics of LR24 and LY parts, particularly the injection systems. I didn't know that they even made an LY24 i thought there was only an LY26 and definitely didn't know they were injected. This makes me want to change my motor to injection!

Yes, but so what? I don't want to appear flippant ( you're building some great engines, and more power to your elbow and all that ) but what's that got to do with this? This is why I keep thinking that some people don't really 'get' it.


We do get it (i say we because you said the same thing to me), i guess if you look at it from the point of view that Pete is just furthering the development the factory started and fixing some of the mistakes they made along the way. Because at the end of the day they were just normal guys working in a Nissan factory. I have read plenty of articles where classic car shops update old motors from 50's jags 60's Astons and Ferraris with modern methods to make them more reliable, efficient and livable.

Again completely as it was back in the day is great and hats off to the people like yourself that keep them that way. I also agree that all this Japanese racing info on zeds isn't more available. i think there are a lot of people who would love to read about it, myself included!

#51 NZeder

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:01 PM

I think  the biggest issue for us is that most of that info is Japanese and for those of us who are not lucky enough to know/read/speak the language that makes it much harder.

It was a shame that back in the day more did not purchase these optional items - internationally as this might have increased the demand and seen zed on more tracks around the world in period with these parts.

I know for one that in the 70's here in NZ there was a big focus on Saloon racing - ie Holdens, Fords (US, UK and Oz version), Chevs, Hillmans, Mini's etc not many 911 or GT's ie 2 seater hardtop aka our S30z. In fact I can't find any info if 240z were raced in the 70's here in NZ. I know the local Datsun Z Club started up in 1981 and the guys started tracking their road or slightly modified road cars in the early 80's but most of the stuff that local Datsun dealer was supporting Reg Cook and the Shell Sport Series no L6 stuff at all. So as the S30z was never a Saloon car it never raced in any of the series that were raced in this part of the world, unlike the 120Y, 1200, 240RS etc.

Which is a same as there is now becoming a good movement of period correct racing here in NZ and getting the old cars back out on the tracks.

I would love to replicate one of the Japanese race cars (based on a early RS30 given that is what I have ;)) and the rules locally here in NZ will allow it but I need to pick a model and replicate it 100% under our schedule K rules - but if it has these special heads etc that is the hard part :( so I am just going for our T&C rules which are modified production cars using period mods.

Under T&C the body work has to be standard series production using original materials ie steel guard from factory = steel guards today. So no Appendix J Group 2 (for saloons) and Group 4(for sports and GT's) body work, engines also have to standard series production with lots of modifications permitted and brakes and suspension mod have to be a period mod/product used in period on the model in question - so free basically but period only - over the years there has been a lot of scope creep in this "free" area and the rules have changed to make it clearer what this means ie currently there are cars with large flares that were Group 2 or 4 mods running in the T&C classes or Twin Cam engines that were not available in period or used in period (Cosworth YB) that someone tricked the power to be that it was a Warrior/Hollbay replica head....


#52 1600dave

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:05 PM

I think  the biggest issue for us is that most of that info is Japanese and for those of us who are not lucky enough to know/read/speak the language that makes it much harder.


Most definitely - I've been researching the R380 / 381 / 382 racers lately, and for such a relatively rare beast I've found quite a few books and other info, but it is all Japanese. One book in particular looks fantastic (going by the pictures), so frustrating to not be able to read it.

#53 dat2kman

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 05:37 PM

Dave W, i can do you a nice cheap all alloy 4.4 litre motor that would be a better unit than the Chevrolet engine that Nissan used in the first of the 380 sports racers!


#54 gav240z

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 06:19 AM

Since we were talking about the old Silvia. You guys might be interested in this.


#55 scott

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 10:45 PM

Another one for sale
http://page10.auctio...tion/m115717073

#56 Cozza

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 10:53 PM

Probably a stupid question but, how do you translate the info in the link above into English?
Mick

#57 MyEnquiringMind

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 10:58 PM

http://translate.goo...tion/m115717073

#58 Cozza

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 11:18 PM

Righto that's great, so how did you create that link?

#59 MyEnquiringMind

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:06 AM

Hi Mick...

you go to http://translate.google.com/ and put the website URL that you want to translate into the left hand side box, press the translate button and it does the rest...

If you have any issues let me know... but works for most languages, and websites...

Cheers, Jarrod.

#60 JDSM

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:21 AM

Or if you use Google Chrome, it will ask you automatically. And you can set translate preferences ... pretty neat.




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