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S20 for sale...


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#21 gav240z

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 03:24 AM

Did you even read my post Gav?  :'( :'( :'(


shiver sounding, futuristic, 2 valve for comparison haha.




Yeah I did matey, I love both L-series and S20 engine sounds :). I was just agreeing that I like the history side of things and sure you can always make improvements using what's available now, including modern engine head porting techniques etc..  but there is something about keeping it 'period' that has it's appeal also.

#22 1600dave

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 08:12 AM

in my opinion if it costs a lot then it wants to be at least what i call moderately fast.


Devil's advocate here - why ??

Why must something be "moderately fast" to be desirable ?

#23 HS30-H

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 08:40 AM

...... I just feel like you are saying that i'm wrong with what I think.


I'll have to make this short for now ( work calls... ), but.....

That's exactly what I'm not saying. I'm responding to your finger pointing ( at the S20 in particular ) and your talk of power to $ ratios. You're welcome to think what you like about them of course, but - I don't want flog the dead horse again - to judge such things primarily on the power they give is ( you guessed it ) missing the point.

I've drawn all the analogies for you. If you don't get where I'm coming from, then fine. Just don't tell me I'm wrong and then in the same breath tell me not to say you are wrong! We'll just end up going round in circles.

Neither of my S20 engines is stock. They are both modified ( shhhhh... ) to give more "powah". Come to think of it, so are my L-gata engines. I hope I haven't spoiled your preconceptions of me.

Here's a straight no-spin question: Have you ever driven an S20-powered car? If you did, was the engine stock or modified? I'm interested to hear your opinion. For me, driving a couple of really well looked after 432s gave me a kick in the direction I have taken over the last few years; I began to be more and more interested in the whole package ( 4.44 ratio LSD, FS5C71-A, S20 warmed over slightly ) as a more 'period correct' entity than something that had been put together after wheeling a giant virtual shopping trolley through Autobacs. I started taking non-period stuff off my cars to replace it with period-correct stuff, although I have been forced to be a little pragmatic.   

A short word about bang for buck: As some people know, my KPGC10 was a philanthropic gift. However you look at it ( remembering that - sometimes - the most expensive things in life can be free... ) that's pretty good bang for buck. The ( 432-specific ) S20 in my 432R replica project wasn't a gift, but it wasn't $50k or anything like it ( I haven't even got that in the whole car so far ). Since that S20 engine is very likely to hold - if not increase - in value for the time I'm likely to own it, it seems like another thing giving me good bang for buck. Again, it's not all about power. I think you'll find that the majority of people who own S20 engines and S20-engined cars didn't originally pay anything like the asking prices you see when they hit the open market today. Same is true with Ferrari 250GTOs and all sorts of other exotica too. 

And enough with the anti-PMC stuff already. I'm not anti-PMC. I speak as I find, and if somebody comes out with something that I see fault in then I'll flag it up. There are no holy cows for me. I'm an equal-opportunities critic.     

#24 dat2kman

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 08:50 AM

You're all forgetting the really good one!

U20 with factory options, in a SR311

Direct lap time comparisons, to a, then new, ligthened caged and prepped for Tarmac rallyspirt, a R35 GTR, so some 42 years age gap.
The 1968  year model SR311, was only 1second a lap slower, over 2100 metres, with corners.

Meh, S20!

#25 NZeder

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 10:09 AM

You're all forgetting the really good one!

U20 with factory options, in a SR311

Direct lap time comparisons, to a, then new, ligthened caged and prepped for Tarmac rallyspirt, a R35 GTR, so some 42 years age gap.
The 1968  year model SR311, was only 1second a lap slower, over 2100 metres, with corners.

Meh, S20!

lol shame we don't have any racing here in NZ (that I know of)

#26 d3c0y

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 10:29 AM

Meh, S20!

Quick! I'll get the stones (to throw at Jason)!

I'm bored with trying to defend my opinion now.

Just to make this really easy:
  • You have continually refuted my opinions, saying i don't get it. I do get it, I'd just rather spend my money on an L-series
  • I get the nostalgia thing and why it doesn't need to make 400hp
  • My original comment was actually about the TC24 head. Thriller made the comment you could have one for the same money as S20 and more power comment lol, not me.
  • Maybe using the term "wank factor" rubbed you up the wrong way  :P  toughen up princess 
  • As i keep saying, I don't think S20s are shiver but i do think they aren't good buying at the sort of prices they are today, case in point the one at the start of the thread for Y5m.
  • Preconceptions are not spoiled, I know you like going fast too but i promise i won't tell anyone.
  • I mentioned PMC once on the first page and I didn't bring him up again?
You've definitely been lucky with those two cars then and yeah i agree with the if you had them before they were uber expensive it makes it a much easier proposition. Still people do pay today's prices for them.

I'll admit I have committed the ultimate forum sin. I have not driven an S20 powered car like 99% of people on this forum. How different is it to an L24? I know they make less torque but rev harder.

Devil's advocate here - why ??

Why must something be "moderately fast" to be desirable ?


Because i like fast cars/bikes etc.* You can like the slow ones, I don't mind.

*Disclaimer: This is not a linear scale that can be applied to all vehicles. Levels of acceptable performance to Jake may vary depending on how cool said vehicle is.

#27 NZeder

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 12:27 PM

I think these S20 engines should be looked at like a BDA well not really as BDA's were made in larger number and you can even find new casting for the BDA/BDG engine eg http://www.sasengine...dabdgheads.html

BD* (ie BDA, BDD, BDG etc) engines command a big price tag these days so given the S20 is an even more exotic piece of kit why should it be any different?

Having seen HS30-H cars in the flesh there something special about the S20 engine even if they don't have the torque and power of a L28. It would be like owning a LY24, LY26 or LY28 they are special, rare, Nissan Factory Works bit of kit and that is why you want them not everyone has one aka it is special. We all like to feel special.

We like our Datsun's that is why we are on forums like this - weather your go for a large stroker, modified body work, rb repower or v8 between the struts whatever floats your boat. I am not an MG fan so to me it is just another MG.....and lots think that about our zeds - it just a Datsun (lumping a 240z with a Cherry or 720 ute etc).

TC24 - have a cool factor from the engineering that goes into them - art work if you like. Would I want one? Hell yes. Just like I would want an S20. The engineering in the S20 engine is just amazing, and if you have seen one in the flesh you would understand - that is just the engineer in me (ok studied electrical engineering then moving in electronics and computers - but I still have a great appreciation for the engineering that goes into these engines).

But if money was no object then there is really only one path that I would take. LY head and try to get a foundry to recast them. Now that would not only be cool but just outstanding as then you have something special that is FIA approved for the S30 chassis unlike a TC24.

But money does come into it for most/all of us - so we do what we feel we can afford to do for our given goals.

#28 dat2kman

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 12:34 PM

Even rarer than S20 or Ford BD series, is,
FJ24
I only have one, but that will do me!

#29 NZeder

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 01:06 PM

Even rarer than S20 or Ford BD series, is,
FJ24
I only have one, but that will do me!

True - so rare I forgot about that too ;)

Even the FJ20 you don't see for sale much any more (well here in NZ anyway - they are becoming more and more like hens teeth)

I just want one of those rare Kakimoto "Datsun 260z" rocker covers like Benny sold a few years back as that would go great on the 260z track car ;) that would satisfy the rare parts need right now 8)

#30 HS30-H

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 02:51 PM

  • Maybe using the term "wank factor" rubbed you up the wrong way  :P  toughen up princess 


Hey sweetheart, want to have a peep at some L-gata porn from 1971? Stick this on an L24 and what have you got?

Posted Image

Posted Image



#31 dat2kman

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 03:57 PM

Amazing, my U20 four cylinder head intake/exhaust pirts, are eggsakerely the same as that above pic from Alan!


#32 d3c0y

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 04:51 PM

Hey sweetheart, want to have a peep at some L-gata porn from 1971? Stick this on an L24 and what have you got?



An L24 with a factory race head i'm guessing? It must be a factory special with round exhaust ports and closed face chambers.
Impressively big ports on that thing, what sort of numbers does it flow on a flow bench? What diameter are the ports?
Pretty cool that is has the coolant pipe on the manifold too

#33 Gareth. J.

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 05:01 PM

This is an interesting topic. Is it an FIA head? What are the differences or advantages over the regular heads?

Also what would classify as period mods, and can you share some the period mods done on your Cars, in particular the hako



#34 d3c0y

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 05:11 PM

Well for starters it has round exhaust ports which in theory should flow more and it's got the external water rail for even cooling of the combustion chambers.





#35 NZeder

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 05:38 PM

Well for starters it has round exhaust ports which in theory should flow more and it's got the external water rail for even cooling of the combustion chambers.

correct a completely different casting to the standard series production items. So one can only guess that things that we have to overcome with the standard head to gain x by welding this and do that to get y the engineers did all this back in the early 70's and then cast up these special items. Why well they were the factory so they could and like so many of these type of parts the accountants and management would not allow these to become standard series production parts. This could be down to a number of factors ie safety too much performance for the Joe public, too costly to mass produce and would not met environmental requirements.

So what we are doing today with the stock head the factory must have known and corrected with all these special castings. Again it does always come down to mass production costs vs performane for the budget the accountants/manufacturer will allow. Remember the designer wanted the light covers with the chrome bands fitted to all S30z but the accountants stopped that.

#36 Zedman240®

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 06:26 PM

This chat makes me think of my old Shogun MTB collection fetish... To me, they bring back something from my youth and mean something special, but to anybody else, they'd throw it on the hard rubbish pile, quicker than you can say "S20". For the same cash you could go out and by something alot nicer, but I have tried that and I didn't like it. Bought a later MTB and have since sold it in preference for something 20 years older.


#37 Gareth. J.

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 07:23 PM

Have these ever been reproduced like the twin cam heads?

#38 NZeder

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 07:32 PM

Have these ever been reproduced like the twin cam heads?

that would be a no...they are rare items and if you had one would you cut it up so more could be made? In fact you might need more than on to cut on the off chance that someone can cast up a replacement.

#39 Fairlady Z

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 08:09 PM

See Jarrod what you done posting that link.
An outright war lol.

I started the z scene with bang for buck and went rb route. Did i give a rats butt about nostalgic or original? Nope.

Now bit older and over 10yrs exeprience in z cars things have changed somewhat.

Would i pay 80k + for a 432 with s20 oh hell yeah.

Would i pay 30k+  for s20 maybe not unless i have a ps30 shell with s20 missing or hako gtr.

Would i pay 15k+ for worked L with 300hp well hell no.

Would i pay 15k for rb26 with 600hp+ in a z hell yeah.

Would i pay 20k  for us iron with 1000hp hell yeah.

Like d3coy said everyone to them selves.

I love hi-tech i love classic and i love original. Cant have all in one car so you buy few and have all.  :P



#40 gav240z

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 08:26 PM

Remember the designer wanted the light covers with the chrome bands fitted to all S30z but the accountants stopped that.


I heard they also wanted to make the front slated grill go all the way down below the bumper, but the bean counters put a stop to that also due to cost :).




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