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dat2kman

Roll cage padding Moratorium until end June 2013

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CAMS have placed a moratorium, ie not required, until end June 2013, on the SFI 45 roll cage padding requirement.

 

You still need something, but not the expensive rock hard stuff complying to sfi45

 

Do not know back story, but this announcement is all over rally forums.

Applicable to any competition vehicle below national level, this does not mean rhe Datnats are a national level event.

 

CAMS bulletin number 013-037.

 

Some scrutineers can be a bit slow reading the bulletins, be polite next weekend at the DatNats!

 

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Thank's Jase, We had our first speed event on the weekend, a Hillclimb and enforced it...LOL

 

The club brought 40 or 50 lengths from Revolution, and sold them at $40 a length. One length was plenty enough to do each car. around a 30cm length on the side bar near your head and a shorter length on the cage leg near your shoulder and maybe a short length on the windscreen cross brace. We copied what the 'Targa' car's in attendence had.

 

I was Cheif Scrut and was happy to sign off on the above, as was the Stewards.

 

Hodgo

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Well done, a bit of diplomacy goes a long way!

Eventually all cars with a cage, in competition will require it, but current issue is rhe attachment.

Suggestion f cable ties,,,,, but,,,, cable ties can burn,,,, eventually.

Still being sorted out, i believe!

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The requirement to comply for ALL vehicles in CAMS motorsport events will be enforced from July 1  in 2013.

 

It must be marked with "SFI 45-1"

 

You can use the "mini" pieces, these will fit 1.5" to 2" is not a "full half circle" and complies.

Price should be around $36 per 3 foot piece. ( $45 for the larger half circle)

 

Just a heads up guys!

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Is this padding requirement for any cage including a non complied half cage?  Because that FIA stuff is relatively hard and not really suitable unless a helmet is worn at all times, which is impossible with a road reg car. My half cage has Q State specified body clearances, putting that stuff on would in effect bring a hard surface nearer to my head.

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Is this padding requirement for any cage including a non complied half cage?  Because that FIA stuff is relatively hard and not really suitable unless a helmet is worn at all times, which is impossible with a road reg car. My half cage has Q State specified body clearances, putting that stuff on would in effect bring a hard surface nearer to my head.

Motorsport accessories/Extreme has the thin small stuff at 36$ a piece, that will suffice.

If a car has any form of ROPS, no matter what, and, when in seated pos, with harness on, and helmet, any part of ROPS that MAY be contacted by helmet, now, must have this stuff on.

Pool noodle type stuff is not acceptable.

Imagine, severe frontal impact, torso mves forward, neck stretches, belts stretch, top f helmet hits the rops bar section above windscreen, or, rollover, head flung violently, helmet contacts rops.

It is these areas that need covering. But not the whole rops.

 

Richard if you are running, or anyone, a half cage, where main hoop, is positioned to rear of headrest, rear of seat sides, ie your helmet simply cannot touch the rops, then you DON'T nedd to fit anything.

 

Has this been raised at ZCCQ meetings, as the scrutineer for MP would/should have made mention of it.

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The requirement will filter down to AASA.

Most of their "scrutineers" ( who dont actually inspect any cars ! ) are CAMS guys anyway!

 

At least with cars running half cages the back seat occupants and the rear half of the interior are well protected!

The idiocy of the transport laws, ie must permit ingress/egress, thus dis-allowing a front half cage , is stupid.

 

There has been a flurry of full caged rally cars getting logbooked, made barely road registerable, then getting road registration, only to be stripped apart to then slowly complete a complete and proper buil, due to the changes in Aus transport laws and full ROPS.

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My half cage with no padding passed CAMS at Phillip Island recently so that is a start but CAMS should be at least talking with State authorities with a view to avoid conflicting requirements.

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CAMS give no thought to road authorities because they are only interested in mitigating their risk for their events. Which is fair enough too as their insurance gives very good benefits it your day turns to a heap of shit and feathers and you are airlifted to hospital in a coma with broken back, you will have your medical expenses covered and 75% of your wages paid as a disability benefit until you recover, or a reasonably generous payout for permanent disability. So paying $100 for some padding is cheap to me for those benefits.

 

Have a look at the AASA coverage for some sobering reading in comparison.

 

 

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Hmmm, so CAMS do nothing but provide insurance coverage?

Yes correct, absolutely, spot on, A-1.

Stick to AASA, much more transparent.

Ask to take away a copy of their insurance policies, that, are to cover your arse, for perusal and understanding.

See how far you get.

AASA has, of course, trained ALL their flaggies, scrutineers, event directors, haven't they, ,,, ,, oh wait,, wot,, they all got trained by some other organisation, at the expense of their members,,,,, nnnnooooo!!

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I don't care if it's CAMS or AASA, it's the circuit and event that counts for me. But one thing AASA have done is give CAMS some competition, the effect of that should not be underestimated as far as benefiting grass roots motorsport, which CAMS gives no **** for anyway. As for officials, CAMS does not own them just because they trained them, not that being a flaggie requires much training. Motorsport in Q has boomed since AASA came on the scene too, something that the old school CAMS stalwarts probably don't like because their old junker cars no longer get any respect :)

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not that being a flaggie requires much training.

 

Boo hiss, from an occasional flaggie.

 

CAMS does not own them just because they trained them,

 

CAMS may not own me, but they do provide all the FREE training, a plan of progression / certification through a number of "ranks", newsletters, a dedicated contact (ie a guy in charge of officials and training, etc, etc. I don't see AASA providing any of that ?

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Yes, well noted Dave.

I dont see any pro-active measures from AASA in regard to the large number of on track incidents occuring, yes it is cheap now to run aasa, any legal cases arising from severe incidents get severe "non disclosure" clauses, you cannot obtain a copy of the policy which covers your arse.

The proliferation of "wanna-be" racres that front with often dodgy eyebrow raising "cars" at aasa meets have well given us more on track incidents, some quite severe.

In the main, the Gen Y, and in some cases, the Gen Old Fart mentality is, the biggest fastest highest horsepower, lets go as fast as we can, just to beat ( insert name of other Gen Y/Gen OF type) and improve PB's every time,,

Is all frought with danger, and it is showing, especialky at a local Brisbane venue.

 

There doesnt exist the mindset of progression, learning, improvement, ie get the brakes right, then get the handling right, now go out and LEARN to drive, then go and LEARN to drive on a race track, jump a few years, ok, lets upgrade your engine, etc.

 

Now we have a huge qty of never heard of's shortly about to be unleadhed at Eastern Creek on World Time Attack, majority have never done this before, ie been on a bluudy race track! But they have HUGE fat chequebooks, and this "i wanna win NOW" mentality.

 

Yes, you're right,

AASA has made it ver easy, cheap, and simple, for just about anyone, to be a champion.

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Just a quick one  DET, my understanding is that you only need the padding where your head can contact the roll cage, If you have a half cage with the hoop behind your seat you shouldn't need any of the new type padding, there you go saved you 40 bucks.

 

Hodgo

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;D Jason, stop acting like an old fart who resents the young un's and new ways of competing.

 

On the flaggie thing, I've waved flags, it's very necessary for the sport but it's not hard to do. And in Q anyway without AASA they would basically have to go to Warwick for the occasional event there to get any experience at all. Plus CAMS does nothing to promote grass roots motorsport in Q whereas AASA does heaps, swings and roundabouts as for which does what.

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;D Jason, stop acting like an old fart who resents the young un's and new ways of competing.

 

On the flaggie thing, I've waved flags, it's very necessary for the sport but it's not hard to do. And in Q anyway without AASA they would basically have to go to Warwick for the occasional event there to get any experience at all. Plus CAMS does nothing to promote grass roots motorsport in Q whereas AASA does heaps, swings and roundabouts as for which does what.

 

No it's not hard to wave a flag, but it is difficult to do well.

 

The reason there is only CAMS events at Warwick, well the owner of the two tracks in Brisbane believes he doesn't need CAMS to run his show, and to a certain extent he is right, but I would rather race at a CAMS event for the organisation on and off the track than at a AASA event.

 

Doesn't mean I won't, just that I believe CAMS race meetings are generally better run on and off the track and better resourced, I haven't seen a flaggie at a AASA meeting in Qld for at least 12 months, at Lakeside that does leave a blind spot at the Karasel that can't be seen from the tower, that can have potenially bad consequences, but no so much a risk when playing kiddy lap dashes compared to hairy chested real drag em down knock em out door to door racing ;D

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Does anyone have any specific info about how to hold the new padding on ? As mentioned above somewhere, are cable ties OK ? How about double-sided velcro tape ?

 

I fitted the padding early this year, it started to come off (the sefl-adhesive is pretty ordinary) so I cable-tied it back on for the last meeting. Not particularly happy with that, I was intending to use velcro tape.

 

Just a little concerned about what the scrutineers willl be happy with ? Or are ther any better alternatives ?

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No it's not hard to wave a flag, but it is difficult to do well.

 

The reason there is only CAMS events at Warwick, well the owner of the two tracks in Brisbane believes he doesn't need CAMS to run his show, and to a certain extent he is right, but I would rather race at a CAMS event for the organisation on and off the track than at a AASA event.

 

Doesn't mean I won't, just that I believe CAMS race meetings are generally better run on and off the track and better resourced, I haven't seen a flaggie at a AASA meeting in Qld for at least 12 months, at Lakeside that does leave a blind spot at the Karasel that can't be seen from the tower, that can have potenially bad consequences, but no so much a risk when playing kiddy lap dashes compared to hairy chested real drag em down knock em out door to door racing ;D

 

With the door to door racing they should have a helicopter medic standing by, it so much more, err, ummm, yeah, hairy chested than just doing laps  :D

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Dave, yes cable ties are fine. The adhesive is crap, and velcro is frowned upon.

The readoning on cable ties is, by the time they get to melt in a fire situation, you should have been either extracted from car, or not with us anymore, if it is severe.

 

As for AASA, if it wasnt for the existing and ongoing training that CAMS conducts in Qld, there wouldnt be the appropriately trained officials.AASA does no training, grading or certification nor does it intend to.

 

The ability for absolute numpties with big fat chequebooks to build Superlap/TimeAttack cars, having had no progressive race craft/track craft, is way too easy. Why?

'cos AASA is very happy to take your $200 for their full race licence, not be a member of a club that will groom you up to this, and let these numpties out on a track for door to door stuff.

 

Hence also the huge popylarity of lapdash jockeys, with quite a few coming to grief, due to the ease of doing it.

260det, get licensed up, and run with the AASA "outlaws" class, your car is on par with them, and then come back and comment on that experience! Let us know how the flaggies, or lack of, are so needed, let us know how the two local tracks handle on track incidents.

Many on here are conversant with CAMs run events and procedures and conduct.

 

I've raced at a few AASA run tracks, under their control, and they have a hell of a lot of improvements that can be done to come up to events that are under CAMS.

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You AASA knockers must go to a different Lakeside to me, see my incar video of Michael's prang not long after I passed him and note how quickly the crash team have swung into action. Note also the manned flag points which can be seen in any of my videos

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So at lakeside under AASA the most manned flag points I have seen at any race meeting is three, the start/finish line, exit of the Karasel and Hungry. The last time I raced a CAMS meeting at Lakeside there were manned flagged points, including trained firemarshals on point and mobile at the following locations:

Start/finish

Drivers right at Kink

Drivers Left at entry to karasel

drivers right at exit karasel

drivers left at bus stop

drivers right at bridge

drivers right at hungry

drivers left at eastern loop entry

drivers left at exit of turn onto straight.

 

The AASA meetings do well with the available resources, the crash team and medic team are great, I have unfortunately had to utilise their services on a couple of occaisions, however the CAMS flaggies. nor Queensland Fire and Rescue club are utilised at Lakeside or QR unless its the V8 meeting where V8 supercars lease the facilities from QR and run the show themselves to CAMS specs.

 

The CAMS official system is very well regulated and the licencing ensures that as you progress you have valuable skills. Personally I reached grade 2 as a fire marshall with endorsements for emergency vehicle driver, allowing me to be FIV driver at Indy, Medic car driver at Bathurst and senior pit lane marshal at the F1 GP's. As I have had my licence lapse, I have to start again if I get back into firemarshalling, which I probably will when I hang up the helmet.

 

This year's AASA race meetings have pretty much done away with all on track flaggies due to their in car radio system controlled from the tower at each track. All well and good, but at Lakeside the back of the karasel is blind from the tower and their have been quite a few incidents there. At QR there is no problem as you can see the whole track from the tower. This sytem may eventually filter down to sprint days, but I doubt it due to the number of radios needed and the protocols to use them, so limited numbers of flag points will continue to be manned when resources are available.

 

AASA provides an alternative to CAMS for the lower level events, but at state or National level, they aren't run as well as CAMS events, just ask most of the prod sports blokes who came up to QR last year for the one hour race and compare how that was run compared to the one hour at Warwick in 2011 under CAMS.

 

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Earlier in 2013

A race meeting at QR, full visibility from tower.

Flagpoints are lights only, controlled by tower

Sports car race, Lotus Exige has edge of track incident after turn 2 mid race.

Fire ensued.

By the time the clapped out jalopy, and the sitting in their little transportable shelter fire crew of three got to the burning to hell Lotus exige, it was totally destroyed.

 

Yes, very confidence inspiring.

 

Second incident, first hand experience Lakeside

Races for Historic Sports cars,

Mid race, rear of field incident, front of field shown Red flag at exit of Karrousel, then shown Green flag at Hungry, racing continued but drivers showing caution ( experienced CAMS licensed) a further lap completed, then double waved red at start, race stopped, leading three drivers were requested to attend tower,

Subsequently verbally berated for "continuing to race under full course Red"

When it was explained, that two of the three had onboard cameras, showing Green at Hungry, matter was dropped.

 

Thers your "flagging" your "fire marshals" at an AASA track that is run purely for profit as a business, with keeping procedural expenses to minimum.

 

260det, stop sprouting on about how great they are, go and actually race, at other circuits, with your top speed fith gear at PI ZX, and your berating of the "jig jog" morgan park.

Once you've got that under your belt, then look at the standards employed at the two aasa run joints in Qld.

Wakefield and Winton under aasa are far superior. So not aasa bashing!

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