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Roll cage padding Moratorium until end June 2013


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#1 dat2kman

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:39 PM

CAMS have placed a moratorium, ie not required, until end June 2013, on the SFI 45 roll cage padding requirement.

You still need something, but not the expensive rock hard stuff complying to sfi45

Do not know back story, but this announcement is all over rally forums.
Applicable to any competition vehicle below national level, this does not mean rhe Datnats are a national level event.

CAMS bulletin number 013-037.

Some scrutineers can be a bit slow reading the bulletins, be polite next weekend at the DatNats!


#2 bluerat

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:10 PM

Thank's Jase, We had our first speed event on the weekend, a Hillclimb and enforced it...LOL

The club brought 40 or 50 lengths from Revolution, and sold them at $40 a length. One length was plenty enough to do each car. around a 30cm length on the side bar near your head and a shorter length on the cage leg near your shoulder and maybe a short length on the windscreen cross brace. We copied what the 'Targa' car's in attendence had.

I was Cheif Scrut and was happy to sign off on the above, as was the Stewards.

Hodgo

#3 dat2kman

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:27 PM

Well done, a bit of diplomacy goes a long way!
Eventually all cars with a cage, in competition will require it, but current issue is rhe attachment.
Suggestion f cable ties,,,,, but,,,, cable ties can burn,,,, eventually.
Still being sorted out, i believe!

#4 dat2kman

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:37 PM

The requirement to comply for ALL vehicles in CAMS motorsport events will be enforced from July 1  in 2013.

It must be marked with "SFI 45-1"

You can use the "mini" pieces, these will fit 1.5" to 2" is not a "full half circle" and complies.
Price should be around $36 per 3 foot piece. ( $45 for the larger half circle)

Just a heads up guys!

#5 260DET

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 07:27 PM

Is this padding requirement for any cage including a non complied half cage?  Because that FIA stuff is relatively hard and not really suitable unless a helmet is worn at all times, which is impossible with a road reg car. My half cage has Q State specified body clearances, putting that stuff on would in effect bring a hard surface nearer to my head.

#6 dat2kman

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:46 PM

Is this padding requirement for any cage including a non complied half cage?  Because that FIA stuff is relatively hard and not really suitable unless a helmet is worn at all times, which is impossible with a road reg car. My half cage has Q State specified body clearances, putting that stuff on would in effect bring a hard surface nearer to my head.

Motorsport accessories/Extreme has the thin small stuff at 36$ a piece, that will suffice.
If a car has any form of ROPS, no matter what, and, when in seated pos, with harness on, and helmet, any part of ROPS that MAY be contacted by helmet, now, must have this stuff on.
Pool noodle type stuff is not acceptable.
Imagine, severe frontal impact, torso mves forward, neck stretches, belts stretch, top f helmet hits the rops bar section above windscreen, or, rollover, head flung violently, helmet contacts rops.
It is these areas that need covering. But not the whole rops.

Richard if you are running, or anyone, a half cage, where main hoop, is positioned to rear of headrest, rear of seat sides, ie your helmet simply cannot touch the rops, then you DON'T nedd to fit anything.

Has this been raised at ZCCQ meetings, as the scrutineer for MP would/should have made mention of it.

#7 PZG302

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 07:58 AM

Or, if you only do AASA sprints then you don't have to worry about the padding at all.

#8 dat2kman

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:47 AM

The requirement will filter down to AASA.
Most of their "scrutineers" ( who dont actually inspect any cars ! ) are CAMS guys anyway!

At least with cars running half cages the back seat occupants and the rear half of the interior are well protected!
The idiocy of the transport laws, ie must permit ingress/egress, thus dis-allowing a front half cage , is stupid.

There has been a flurry of full caged rally cars getting logbooked, made barely road registerable, then getting road registration, only to be stripped apart to then slowly complete a complete and proper buil, due to the changes in Aus transport laws and full ROPS.

#9 260DET

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 04:47 PM

My half cage with no padding passed CAMS at Phillip Island recently so that is a start but CAMS should be at least talking with State authorities with a view to avoid conflicting requirements.

#10 PZG302

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:30 PM

CAMS give no thought to road authorities because they are only interested in mitigating their risk for their events. Which is fair enough too as their insurance gives very good benefits it your day turns to a heap of shit and feathers and you are airlifted to hospital in a coma with broken back, you will have your medical expenses covered and 75% of your wages paid as a disability benefit until you recover, or a reasonably generous payout for permanent disability. So paying $100 for some padding is cheap to me for those benefits.

Have a look at the AASA coverage for some sobering reading in comparison.



#11 260DET

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 06:31 PM

Hmmm, so CAMS do nothing but provide insurance coverage?

#12 dat2kman

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 06:53 PM

Hmmm, so CAMS do nothing but provide insurance coverage?

Yes correct, absolutely, spot on, A-1.
Stick to AASA, much more transparent.
Ask to take away a copy of their insurance policies, that, are to cover your arse, for perusal and understanding.
See how far you get.
AASA has, of course, trained ALL their flaggies, scrutineers, event directors, haven't they, ,,, ,, oh wait,, wot,, they all got trained by some other organisation, at the expense of their members,,,,, nnnnooooo!!

#13 260DET

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 10:43 PM

I don't care if it's CAMS or AASA, it's the circuit and event that counts for me. But one thing AASA have done is give CAMS some competition, the effect of that should not be underestimated as far as benefiting grass roots motorsport, which CAMS gives no **** for anyway. As for officials, CAMS does not own them just because they trained them, not that being a flaggie requires much training. Motorsport in Q has boomed since AASA came on the scene too, something that the old school CAMS stalwarts probably don't like because their old junker cars no longer get any respect :)

#14 1600dave

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:31 AM

not that being a flaggie requires much training.


Boo hiss, from an occasional flaggie.

CAMS does not own them just because they trained them,


CAMS may not own me, but they do provide all the FREE training, a plan of progression / certification through a number of "ranks", newsletters, a dedicated contact (ie a guy in charge of officials and training, etc, etc. I don't see AASA providing any of that ?

#15 dat2kman

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:53 AM

Yes, well noted Dave.
I dont see any pro-active measures from AASA in regard to the large number of on track incidents occuring, yes it is cheap now to run aasa, any legal cases arising from severe incidents get severe "non disclosure" clauses, you cannot obtain a copy of the policy which covers your arse.
The proliferation of "wanna-be" racres that front with often dodgy eyebrow raising "cars" at aasa meets have well given us more on track incidents, some quite severe.
In the main, the Gen Y, and in some cases, the Gen Old Fart mentality is, the biggest fastest highest horsepower, lets go as fast as we can, just to beat ( insert name of other Gen Y/Gen OF type) and improve PB's every time,,
Is all frought with danger, and it is showing, especialky at a local Brisbane venue.

There doesnt exist the mindset of progression, learning, improvement, ie get the brakes right, then get the handling right, now go out and LEARN to drive, then go and LEARN to drive on a race track, jump a few years, ok, lets upgrade your engine, etc.

Now we have a huge qty of never heard of's shortly about to be unleadhed at Eastern Creek on World Time Attack, majority have never done this before, ie been on a bluudy race track! But they have HUGE fat chequebooks, and this "i wanna win NOW" mentality.

Yes, you're right,
AASA has made it ver easy, cheap, and simple, for just about anyone, to be a champion.

#16 bluerat

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 11:09 AM

Just a quick one  DET, my understanding is that you only need the padding where your head can contact the roll cage, If you have a half cage with the hoop behind your seat you shouldn't need any of the new type padding, there you go saved you 40 bucks.

Hodgo

#17 260DET

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 06:39 PM

;D Jason, stop acting like an old fart who resents the young un's and new ways of competing.

On the flaggie thing, I've waved flags, it's very necessary for the sport but it's not hard to do. And in Q anyway without AASA they would basically have to go to Warwick for the occasional event there to get any experience at all. Plus CAMS does nothing to promote grass roots motorsport in Q whereas AASA does heaps, swings and roundabouts as for which does what.

#18 PZG302

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:47 PM

;D Jason, stop acting like an old fart who resents the young un's and new ways of competing.

On the flaggie thing, I've waved flags, it's very necessary for the sport but it's not hard to do. And in Q anyway without AASA they would basically have to go to Warwick for the occasional event there to get any experience at all. Plus CAMS does nothing to promote grass roots motorsport in Q whereas AASA does heaps, swings and roundabouts as for which does what.


No it's not hard to wave a flag, but it is difficult to do well.

The reason there is only CAMS events at Warwick, well the owner of the two tracks in Brisbane believes he doesn't need CAMS to run his show, and to a certain extent he is right, but I would rather race at a CAMS event for the organisation on and off the track than at a AASA event.

Doesn't mean I won't, just that I believe CAMS race meetings are generally better run on and off the track and better resourced, I haven't seen a flaggie at a AASA meeting in Qld for at least 12 months, at Lakeside that does leave a blind spot at the Karasel that can't be seen from the tower, that can have potenially bad consequences, but no so much a risk when playing kiddy lap dashes compared to hairy chested real drag em down knock em out door to door racing ;D

#19 1600dave

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:12 PM

Does anyone have any specific info about how to hold the new padding on ? As mentioned above somewhere, are cable ties OK ? How about double-sided velcro tape ?

I fitted the padding early this year, it started to come off (the sefl-adhesive is pretty ordinary) so I cable-tied it back on for the last meeting. Not particularly happy with that, I was intending to use velcro tape.

Just a little concerned about what the scrutineers willl be happy with ? Or are ther any better alternatives ?

#20 260DET

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:57 PM

No it's not hard to wave a flag, but it is difficult to do well.

The reason there is only CAMS events at Warwick, well the owner of the two tracks in Brisbane believes he doesn't need CAMS to run his show, and to a certain extent he is right, but I would rather race at a CAMS event for the organisation on and off the track than at a AASA event.

Doesn't mean I won't, just that I believe CAMS race meetings are generally better run on and off the track and better resourced, I haven't seen a flaggie at a AASA meeting in Qld for at least 12 months, at Lakeside that does leave a blind spot at the Karasel that can't be seen from the tower, that can have potenially bad consequences, but no so much a risk when playing kiddy lap dashes compared to hairy chested real drag em down knock em out door to door racing ;D


With the door to door racing they should have a helicopter medic standing by, it so much more, err, ummm, yeah, hairy chested than just doing laps  :D




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