Author Topic: Sirpent "Z"  (Read 88807 times)

Offline KatoKid

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Re: Sirpent "Z"
« Reply #720 on: October 13, 2011, 12:11:07 PM »
Sump looks good, shouldn't present any issues.

Assume the crankshaft as a recess to accommodate a spigot bearing, may pay to take some measurements of that and the nose of the T56 to you local bearing shop.

Rather than cut n shut bellhousings wouldn't it be easier to make a mild steel adapter plate either on the block to T56 bellhousing interface or bolt the T56 to the back of the Benz bellhousing using a mild steel adapter? That's assuming shaft lengths are doable of course

If you go with a mild steel adapter plate on the block to T56 bellhousing interface it will the Benz auto unmolested and you should be able to get a good quid for it?
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Re: Sirpent "Z"
« Reply #721 on: October 13, 2011, 12:24:07 PM »
Hmmmmmmmmm couple of problems with that David which you may pick up in the photo's when you take a 2nd look.

First the T56 bell is was to large at the face and part of it already breaches the rear feed tubes, second the Benz uses a partially internal starter and you just wouldn't be able to mod this nor adapt something for the T56 bell, so the only way forward is to use the Benz bell housing.

Whats good here is that the Benz bell tapers inwards to the box interface and the T56 is wider and has bolts holding it to the box running backwards into the bell from the box side.

Because of this cutting the T56 bell rear will create an over sized plate and also allow for comfortable welding and then the addition of re-enforcement gussets.

If there was another way I would do it but both bells will have to be partially sacrificed.
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Re: Sirpent "Z"
« Reply #722 on: October 22, 2011, 03:23:36 PM »
Minor Update

OK, finally got around to doing some house keeping around the car and also started evaluating the engine box configuration, I must say that I was a bit worried but was pleasantly surprised once I got stuck into it all.

Have attached some pics below.

Engine : Have decided I am going to have the motor totally dry ice blasted, having inspected all the seals I couldn't find a single leak of any sort, not even tell tell staining of the alloy left even after a decent steam cleaning, so all good in this department, however the alloy is starting to whiten off with what I think may be salt rather than moisture oxidisation, so I partially stripped away the coil packs some of the tensioner pulleys harmonic balance etc so as to give the process better penetration.

I also dropped out each of the "12" plugs, to have a look at the state of the electrodes, all good, no oil deposits, nice and dry, black carbonised in color.

After doing some research I came across this link and then tracked down a guy in metro Melbourne who can come and do it for me, a hell of a lot easier than trying to get into every last nook and cranny mechanically, I will do a vid of the process when its being done for those that may find it of interest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMctw4_Bem0

Transmission : OK this was the fun part, I stripped off the T56 bellhousing, the Benz bell Housing, The torque converter from the engine, and mounted the motor onto an engine stand.

After the strip down of the 2 trannies, I took the metal gasket which lived between the Benz Box and bell housing  and lined it up to the front face of the now bare T56 box (Minus its bell housing) luckily the input shaft main bearing in the box is almost exactly the same as the input shaft hole on the metal Benz gasket, so I think I was able to align the plate to the box within a fraction of a millimeter.

The reason for doing this is because I will be using the Benz housing and needed to see how the outer parameter of the Benz housing would sit in alignment with the T56, good news is that the T56 housing bell mount holes are all outside of the Benz parameter, this means that once I have a plate manufactured which will be welded to the Benz bell, there wont be any issues bolting it up to the T56 and using all the original mount points.

The rear of the Benz housing will have the equivalent of the plates thickness machined off (probably 1/2 inch or 12.5mm) the plate will then replace that section and then the Benz bell will be welded onto this plate which will be in the shape of the T56 face, the depth of the T56 bell is 140mm while the Benz is 145mm so the new hybrid bell will be 140mm as was the original T56 bell housing.

The green dots in one of the pics represent the T56 Bolt points, while the red ones represent the alignment dowles.

So overall a productive day of discovery and good luck.

Cheers

John






« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 03:29:17 PM by Sirpent »
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Re: Sirpent "Z"
« Reply #723 on: October 22, 2011, 07:08:50 PM »
Nothing wrong with Trannies, lovely people, make some of the best Drag Queens.
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Offline KatoKid

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Re: Sirpent "Z"
« Reply #724 on: October 23, 2011, 06:39:13 PM »
Good news John, much better than cutting and shutting bellhousings!
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Re: Sirpent "Z"
« Reply #725 on: October 23, 2011, 06:55:12 PM »
Thanks David

Seems the Gods are with me on this one, couldn't have asked for a better result as far as alignments and margins, so do you think there is method in my madness?

I have tracked down the CAD for the face of the T56, so once I get it I will take the plate from the Benz which is micron perfect in size to the Benz box, convert that to CAD and then overlay the 2 at their vertical axis' and input shaft centre's to get the plate design, simple process then will be to get it water jet cut and mate the new adaptor ring to the Benz housing.
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Offline Gareth. J.

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Re: Sirpent "Z"
« Reply #726 on: October 23, 2011, 07:28:50 PM »
Hey John,  good to see it's all falling into place nicely.

You mention the super charger air intake is coming in from the back of the engine, can you run your it straight into the vented cowl where the windscreen wiper motor sits? It should give you a little more room to mount the motor further back and you'd be getting nice cool air.

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Re: Sirpent "Z"
« Reply #727 on: October 23, 2011, 07:42:08 PM »
Thanks Gareth,

The plan now is, (since I got the motor and worked out all the plumbing first hand) is to do the following

#1 Run piping from each duct on the front spoiler to an air filter assy tucked inside the nose, this will then feed off to a pipe that will utilises one of the large rad support access points on the left hand side which was used to dust ait through it to the left hand skirt intake cavity running to the passenger side dash vent.

#2 As I will be running the battery in the back of the car and have removed the battery tray, I will access the skirt vent where the battery used to be.

#3 from here I will run a feed pipe along the firewall to the rear intake on the motor.

This should give me positive charged and a cooler air flow directly from the spoiler.

The right hand skirt cavity will then carry air to the wiper plenum and also the wiring loom, My plan is to keep the engine bay as wireless as possible, and also to seal up the wiper plennum, using the drivers side duct will supply are to the sealed plenum and accomodate the heater fan intake while sealing it off from water leaves etc etc etc and stop it from acting as a rust pit swimming pool.

Hope this all makes sense.

Cheers

John 




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Offline luvemfast

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Re: Sirpent "Z"
« Reply #728 on: October 24, 2011, 05:27:05 AM »
Isn't where Gareth suggested a high pressure area anyway?
Does the length of the intake piping affect response? I would think so.
In this case, shorter is better. (I've never been told that, just what I've heard  ::))
Are you using an intercooler?

Offline peter mc

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Re: Sirpent "Z"
« Reply #729 on: October 24, 2011, 08:15:52 AM »
sometimes longer is nice :o and if its thick it will have lots of volume so it wont hurt responce ,,,as it has a water to air intercooler under the blower it will have a water radiator in the front of the car as well but they are small and wont take up to much space ,i like johns plan it will be neat

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Re: Sirpent "Z"
« Reply #730 on: October 24, 2011, 10:17:16 AM »
great news on the box. All coming together nicely from the sounds.

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Re: Sirpent "Z"
« Reply #731 on: October 24, 2011, 05:25:16 PM »
Thanks Simon, Pete, Mike

Sorry I haven't been around to respond sooner (Your luck) I started work today.

The original set up has dual long runners, one either side of the engine rocker covers, these runners feed dual air filter plenums, which then dump the intake into a single manifold located at the rear of the motor.

These initial runners terminate at the front just above the radiator and rely on air scavenged from just beneath the bonnet.

As the air runs via the filters into a single 80mm diameter manifold, the dual intakes are acting as scavenging collectors, what I am proposing is to run dual intakes at the spoiler which at speed will collect and increase the intake charge pressure feeding a single large capacity filter and plenum, from there the run to the motor shouldn't be any less in volume than what the OEM system supplies the final intake manifold but charge pressure under even moderate speed should be higher, past 100 klicks this should become more substantial and expodential.

That the theory, Pete may contradict me and I'm happy if he does, the problem with what Gareth suggested would be the filter arrangement, otherwise this would be a very viable option also.

Cheers

John
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Offline MaygZ

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Re: Sirpent "Z"
« Reply #732 on: October 24, 2011, 06:09:21 PM »
Does the length of the intake piping affect response? I would think so.
In this case, shorter is better. (I've never been told that, just what I've heard  ::))

Simon, I've been told that length doesn't matter  :o

No seriously, It's my understanding that as the engine is supercharged and he isn't altering the pipe lengths AFTER the supercharger, it shouldn't alter the engine performance.  So long as he can get enough air to the supercharger, that is.  If he can have some positive air pressure on the low pressure side of the supercharger, then it should increase air pressure on the high side, so hopefully better burn/performance.
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Offline Gareth. J.

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Re: Sirpent "Z"
« Reply #733 on: October 25, 2011, 04:10:49 PM »
Like everything else John your planning and forethought are second to none. You're right filter access to the wiper plenum would be a little tricky and would need some sort of mod.

I like the idea of using the vent intakes, will the oval hole near the ignition coil flow enough?

Less wiring in the engine bay is always a good looking thing and all the intake pipes hidden will be a nice touch too.

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Re: Sirpent "Z"
« Reply #734 on: October 25, 2011, 04:47:49 PM »
Gareth,

I don't deserve your praise, I'm sure many are reading it and saying "Yep John's a bit of a Gunna" "Gunna do this and Gounna do that" but life over the past year has been tough and progress on the car suffered as a result, the benefit was time to think, conceptualise and design, and anyone thinking of building a total hybrid Zed should take note, the devil is in the detail and planning stage.

I hope to gain some respectability back as the months progress and turn these idea's into physical reality.

Your observation about the transition from round to elongated runner is a good one, however looking at the surface area of each would suggest that they are almost line ball, nevertheless, I could always use both skirt tunnels as feeders and then plump from them to the throttle body from each side, options are open and I will see how this all jells once I have the motor and brake boaster mounted.

Cheers

John



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Re: Sirpent "Z"
« Reply #734 on: October 25, 2011, 04:47:49 PM »