Author Topic: FCR jetting  (Read 816 times)

Offline Gareth. J.

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FCR jetting
« on: January 29, 2012, 05:49:16 PM »
As you know I'm going the FCR41 conversion on my car, Just wondering if anyone knows of it being done before and what sort of jetting will be a good starting point? I've done heaps of searching with not much luck, seems likes it's done a little in japan.

Offline dat2kman

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Re: FCR jetting
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2012, 05:52:57 PM »
Ina Japano Mr Garetho!!
Pleasea exeplaina FCR41 ??

I thought, hhmmm, a new carburettor type here!
I just race old datsuns:
Group S Historic 280Z ( not a zx but a USA 280z)
Group O/T Historic Datsun Sports 2000
Group G Datsun 120y  with FJ24 fitted( ex G. Fury)
Marque Sports Datsun Fairlady 1966 -SR20DET

Offline Gareth. J.

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Re: FCR jetting
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2012, 05:58:30 PM »
Sorry I should've put in the full name  :)
Keihin FCR41's.....They are flat slide carbs, no throttle shaft or butterfly so the slide is connected to a common shaft in the top of the carb. Very common on race bikes.

Currently I have 220 or 230 mains in the 42mm Keihin VP on the car, but these are vacuum slide operated and also have a butterfly similar to su's. The FCR's have an accelerator pump on each set.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 06:07:24 PM by Gareth. J. »

Offline peter mc

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Re: FCR jetting
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2012, 06:15:02 PM »
you need to try them mate and find a starting point , then ask a race bike shop for help with jetting

Offline Gareth. J.

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Re: FCR jetting
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2012, 06:19:03 PM »
Hmmmmm yeah thats kinda what I thought.

Might be a silly question but would a bike tuning shop only have a single wheel dyno? Lol.

Offline peter mc

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Re: FCR jetting
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2012, 06:28:08 PM »
heheh yes mate but you just need there jets and tune it on a normal dyno

Offline roastbeef

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Re: FCR jetting
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2012, 07:09:43 PM »
I have these companies bookmarked for the Honda S800. They appear to have done a few FCR conversions on cars.
http://www.v-performance.com/products/air_fuel.html
http://www.phildentonengineering.com/product.asp?pid=506

Also try sending a message to Alan (HS30-H).
I remember enquiring about this setup on another forum a few years ago and he had some information, or could possibly lead you in the right direction.


Offline dat2kman

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Re: FCR jetting
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2012, 07:38:56 PM »
Aha, flat slides, just a thought, the volume of the air pump (cylinder) allowing for valve overlap and cam duration, will compress a particular amount of air for each firing stroke, jetting would pretty much be based on the relationship of air to fuel ( fancy name, stoichiometric ratio) so if a known amount of fuel needs in perfect terms about 14 parts of air, the jetting rhe bike guys use, based on their cylinder volumes, cpuldossibly be calculated out to your cylinder volume.

Maybe weld a bung fitting on the exhaust at gearbox for a wide band lamba sensor, to monitor air/fuel?

Next oddity, how do these flat slides go, say, in a situation of almost wide open throttle, you lift off gas pedal, downchange to lower gear, hit brake pedal, these action cause a fair amount of vacuum, ,, will the vacuum friction affect the flat slide mechanism?
Maybe try a decent household vacuum cleaner on the engine side of one of them, open it, start vacuum, and release the open slide, stiffer return springs??

I had a Kawasaki Z1R mk 2 many moons ago, back when Suzuki made a hairy tbing called Katana, it had the flat slides, i always wondered about how big these got for car use. Honda S600 and S800 sports cars ran them, light car small engine, but i think their carbs were not quite like the normal bike carbs. Interesting!!!

On a bike, far less compression vacuum on deceleration, the slides will close.

I have often looked at rhe lens mechanism of old SLR film type cameta's, at the iris leaves, as you twist the aperture opening ring, in place of a butterfly in a normal carb or TB, again vacuum could be an issue.
I just race old datsuns:
Group S Historic 280Z ( not a zx but a USA 280z)
Group O/T Historic Datsun Sports 2000
Group G Datsun 120y  with FJ24 fitted( ex G. Fury)
Marque Sports Datsun Fairlady 1966 -SR20DET

Offline RB30X

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Re: FCR jetting
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2012, 08:22:51 PM »
Jason in all seriousness, are you on speed?

Offline dat2kman

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Re: FCR jetting
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2012, 08:37:00 PM »
Jason in all seriousness, are you on speed?
No no no, just sometimes i remember donkeys ages ago i like think, uuummm, motorbike carbs on a car???
 Then i think, whats an alternative to a butterfly, a camera iris aperture thingy, i'm like thete in  1985 thinking this weird stuff! Never happens.
The a/f thing is good, got it on the Z and the 120y, play with jets on the Y, go for hard drive, then play again, ypu either go the right eay, or go worse, works good!
In the Z i was playing with temp sensors using different value potentiometets and resistors, do a temp solder up, play, go for a run up long driveway, check lambda read out, lot of fiddling, but got it pretty right, i think!
The Y runs fat around 12;1, better that eay, wont lean it out.
I did lean out Z burnt pistons etc, thats how discovered the intake runners are " not right" from factory on inject manifolds.

What part of my ramblings suggests tje ingestion of goey??
I just race old datsuns:
Group S Historic 280Z ( not a zx but a USA 280z)
Group O/T Historic Datsun Sports 2000
Group G Datsun 120y  with FJ24 fitted( ex G. Fury)
Marque Sports Datsun Fairlady 1966 -SR20DET

Offline peter mc

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Re: FCR jetting
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2012, 08:48:05 PM »
mmmmm you funny bugger you dont need wipper your mind is going so fast .....

Online d3c0y

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Re: FCR jetting
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2012, 08:53:43 PM »
With a 2.8L / 6 you are only getting 466cc per cylinder. 1000cc V-Twins have more capacity per cylinder and probably running more compression so I don't know if the vacuum thing would be an issue?

Just googled - Ducati 900ss, KTM 950 Adventure

Anyway this page also lists a basic tuning guide for FCRs - you did search the Internets already though right?
http://www.ducatitech.com/2v/fcr_faq.html
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 09:44:03 PM by d3c0y »
Not putting miles on your Ferrari is like not having sex with your girlfriend so she'll be more desirable to her next boyfriend.

'73 240Z L24 44 Mikunis 5spd
'90 300ZX TT 2 Seater Targa 5spd
'01 Yamaha YZF-R6
'11 Kawasaki KX-F250 EFI

Online d3c0y

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Re: FCR jetting
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2012, 08:54:37 PM »
mmmmm you funny bugger you dont need wipper your mind is going so fast .....

Lol faster than his fingers can press the letters by the looks!  :P
Not putting miles on your Ferrari is like not having sex with your girlfriend so she'll be more desirable to her next boyfriend.

'73 240Z L24 44 Mikunis 5spd
'90 300ZX TT 2 Seater Targa 5spd
'01 Yamaha YZF-R6
'11 Kawasaki KX-F250 EFI

Offline dat2kman

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Re: FCR jetting
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2012, 09:05:42 PM »
With a 2.8L / 6 you are only getting 466cc per cylinder. 1000cc V-Twins have more capacity per cylinder and probably running more compression so I don't know if the vacuum thing would be an issue?

Just googled - Ducati 900ss, KTM 950 Adventure

Anyway this page also lists a basic tuning guide for FCRs - you did search the Internets already yet though right?
http://www.ducatitech.com/2v/fcr_faq.html
Yep, jake, im not up with the big bore twins, they maybe run some sort of bypass tubing when the throttle snaos off on decceleration, i was going back to old days i can remember my old bikes a Kwaka Z650 then a 900 then the Z1R, a mate had a flexi frame Kwake KH 750 two stroke, horrid thing, missile quick, he put it in a Rickman frame tjat fixed it, we'd go down to Rosebud of a Fid nite, for a run, or down Ocean road to Wye river pub, sleep on lawn out front, those things had the flat slides, but capacity of the four pots were small, plus overall wright wouldnt have been a vacuum isdue on compressipn.
Yeh yeah, i know sometimes my fig bat fingers hit the  wrong keys on the keyboard, but yes i type to quock, mostly on Ipad all time, convienent to pick it up, bang away, as well as type on the ipad, missus whinges a bit, reckons i shouldnt do two things at once, lets see who read all that!!
I just race old datsuns:
Group S Historic 280Z ( not a zx but a USA 280z)
Group O/T Historic Datsun Sports 2000
Group G Datsun 120y  with FJ24 fitted( ex G. Fury)
Marque Sports Datsun Fairlady 1966 -SR20DET

Offline Gareth. J.

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Re: FCR jetting
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2012, 06:28:25 AM »
Thanks for the info so far guys there is some helpful bits there  :) Tuning isn't a problem as I have an air fuel meter but I was hoping to get a really good starting point by finding jetting specifically for the 'L' series motor.

The slides each have 4 rollers on them to make operation silky smooth and as they are fixed to the shaft a throttle return spring will snap them closed.

The old carbs off a cbr1100xx had 150-160 mains from the factory, I've gone through nine jet changes and various other mods to end up with approx 220 mains now so it can be fairly time consuming. Amazingly they did run straight away at that size with no coughing or splutters, just didn't have much grunt. I hope the Fcr's are as easy!

With the Fcr's having acc pumps i thought it will be harder to tune as the extra squirt of fuel when opening the throttle may hide the true tune

I'll shoot Alan a pm, hopefully he has some specific jetting info or knows someone who does.



« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 06:31:59 AM by Gareth. J. »

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Re: FCR jetting
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2012, 06:28:25 AM »