Author Topic: A very rusty z.  (Read 5459 times)

Offline Veloce

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Re: A very rusty z.
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2012, 06:59:30 AM »

Here's some of the rust... Flap disc seems to be quite ineffective against it, unless I'm using it wrong? What should I be doing here? Any ideas would go a long way.


I wouldn't use an 80 grit flap disc on the panels to remove paint or rust, it would gouge the metal too much, what i see in the pic you posted is beyond surface rust, something like that needs to be cut out, it's too pitted... but bonnets aren't that expensive so i would look for a good second hand one.  ;)


Online thriller

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Re: A very rusty z.
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2012, 07:42:18 AM »
Alright, I'll make an offer on that eBay bonnet. All the z's use the same bonnet don't they??

$260 a bit pricey or is that about what they go for? I swear I saw a fiberglass bonnet for sale here for $100 once...

Also RE welders. There's a complete shiverstorm regarding gas vs gasless, conflicting opinions everywhere. Know a couple of people whom I trust pretty well who say a small gasless is totally fine if you take it slow, but then on any forums it seems everyone is backing gas.

-how much should I spend?
-What amp range should I be looking at? 25-130 ish??
-suggestions on places to buy/brands/welders in particular?
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 08:24:33 AM by thriller »

Offline gav240z

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Re: A very rusty z.
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2012, 08:24:21 AM »
Alright, I'll make an offer on that eBay bonnet. All the z's use the same bonnet don't they??

$260 a bit pricey or is that about what they go for? I swear I saw a fiberglass bonnet for sale here for $100 once...

I paid $400 for a 'good straight' 240z bonnet. The bonnets are the same the only difference is the later 260z's had fluted hoods. If this is not a big issue then it doesn't matter, but I personally prefer the look of the non-fluted hood. The flutes are more practical, but I just don't like the late 70's plastic style of them personally. Much prefer a more 60's looking type flute.

like this:
http://www.wallpapersofcars.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/58619_JAGUAR_XK8_CONVERTIBLE_4618785947_01fdf62abd.jpg

Or this:
http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/4093/PreviewComp/SuperStock_4093-24610.jpg

Or you can place the vents in the inspection lids :)
1972 Datsun 240z

Online thriller

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Re: A very rusty z.
« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2012, 10:08:14 AM »
Alrighty,  got me a bonnet for $230. As long as when I go inspect it, it's not totally pitted out like mine. Ventless too, from a 2+2. Started drilling out that bolt too, will have to finish and post a piccy of underneath the fender once I'm home from some uni enrolment thing for a few hours.

Online thriller

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Re: A very rusty z.
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2012, 10:54:39 AM »
Hmm, I didn't think of how I'm actually going to transport the bonnet haha. Might strap it to roof-racks.

Anyway here's some more digging, had to work soon as I got home last night.

Some joker has tried to fill in a dent in the rail with bog...


Stripping down some more, need to get the interior out next step as well as the grill (all the screws stripped instantly... woo...)


Going to have to get creative with some sheet metal in here;


Underneath the passenger fender. Other than the bit of thin sheet that bolts the fender to itself, the whole thing looks pretty solid.


I'd like to thank Nissan engineers for creating adequate drainage solutions here


This is the only rust in the engine bay, obviously underneath the battery. Kind of expected it.


And in the A pillar. This is a bit concerning as I've got no idea what lies underneath that a-pillar... I get the impression that I'll have to pull the roof-skin and a-pillar skins off at some point to assess how bad it is under here, correct?



Anyway, I think that brings me to the point where I know where 95% of the rust is... Once I've stripped the interior, next step is strip out the engine bay, correct?

Offline jamo240

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Re: A very rusty z.
« Reply #50 on: February 03, 2012, 05:46:26 PM »
Hey Thriller....

I would use gas. Gasless has its place (mostly outdoors on building sites where the wind blows the shielding gas away), but in my experience gas systems give a better result, especially for auto work. The right gas is Argoshield (CO2/Argon blend)...the blends are used to reduce spatter, whereas you use straight argon for a TIG.

ESAB build the best welders in the business. I picked one up the other week for $750 second hand....it's a great unit. I have my old one available that you might be interested in if you can't find an ESAB or Miller.

A good 170A machine is fine, and will work on a 15A circuit. 200A will kill it.

Cheers

Grant

Offline nizm0zed

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Re: A very rusty z.
« Reply #51 on: February 03, 2012, 06:17:25 PM »
ditto on the gas welder.
you'll get a better weld, but most importantly for someone learning, you'll get an easier weld.
now, understand im not saying that a gas welder will be easier to use than a gasless, but you'll find its a lot easier to learn and hone your skills, particularly as your trying to learn several things all at once.
That'll equate to a better overall finish and less work 'finishing' your welds.

Make sure you shop around for bottle prices, i have found that BOC are a$$holes to everyone unless your a business that goes through more than 1 bottle a fortnight.
I am with Linde Gas, the bottle rental per year is cheaper, and the refill cost is cheaper than BOC.
You cant refill your own private bottle, which is bollocks, coz it locks you into one of their contracts. They claim that its to do with saftey and testing of the cylinder, which on face value is a pretty fair point.
Best is if you can get a plumber/panel shop mate to get you refill bottles on their account.
I use a E size bottle, its upto my chest in height, so its still a big bottle and lasts a while, but its still able to be moved around. While i dont use it very much, i'll get about a year out of a bottle.
looking at what your in for, i would say that you'll probably knock over 3 bottles of gas in that total body job, someone like John (Sirpent) or Locky (Lurch) will probably be able to judge that better though. they are both smart cookies, so make sure you hit them up for info as you go.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 03:11:23 PM by nizm0zed »
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Online thriller

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Re: A very rusty z.
« Reply #52 on: February 03, 2012, 08:43:41 PM »
Thanks heaps for the tips guys, I'm very glad I didn't pull the trigger on a cheap gasless a few days ago. I figure I won't be needing to weld for a little while to come, so in the meantime research research research + saving saving saving. Before that happens I think I'm pretty well set for a blast jobby, cut out all the rust, prime to cover up the metal and then weld up a rotisserie for a nice little starting project. Then she'll start coming together rather than being ripped apart.

Offline Wayne G

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Re: A very rusty z.
« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2012, 09:28:38 AM »
I bought a good quality gasless 150amp unit ten years ago because of the cost of bottles.  Great unit but the finished weld has a little "slag" when compared to a gas unit.  This can be reduce by ensuring all metal if spotlessly clean prior to welding.  I also don't think that learning to weld on gasless unit would be ideal. 

Irrespective of whether you buy gas or gasless setup, don't buy cheap because you will regret it.  Looking at what you have in front of you, you are going to spend a significant amount of time with your welder, so get a good one so you only do the job once. 

Oh, and don't "learn" on your car.  Get some scraps, similar thickness to your panels, and practise.  My teacher made me spend ages just learing to write my name with a welder, grind it off and then do over, before practising joins.

My 2 cents worth 

Offline FuzzyDropbear

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Re: A very rusty z.
« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2012, 10:07:30 AM »
...
Irrespective of whether you buy gas or gasless setup, don't buy cheap because you will regret it.  Looking at what you have in front of you, you are going to spend a significant amount of time with your welder, so get a good one so you only do the job once. 
...

Totally agree here, you're not paying for someone else to do it, so you may as well purchase good tools to do the job yourself. Buy a good unit and you'll have fun welding, rather than struggling with it when you're learning and getting frustrated with it (especially considering the amount of welding you have ahead of you).

I've only just started welding and bought a gass BOC 190amp and I rekon it's one of the best purchases I've made. I still haven't used gassless, but I've been able to do decent welds without too much hassle.

Offline chartoo

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Re: A very rusty z.
« Reply #55 on: February 04, 2012, 11:14:31 AM »
I did one of the adult education 8 weeks classes. 3 hrs a night once a week. Did one for welding and panel work and one for painting. Learnt so much
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Online thriller

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Re: A very rusty z.
« Reply #56 on: February 04, 2012, 03:54:09 PM »
Thanks guys, should mention that I've done a fair bit of welding at school, but that was just with a basic oxy setup. So I'm not completely new to it, but new to mig. I'll start off with a whole pile of scrap and if I decide to get a rotisserie, I'll weld that up first before touching the car with it. Thanks again for the tips.

Offline Gareth. J.

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Re: A very rusty z.
« Reply #57 on: February 04, 2012, 06:51:08 PM »
Mig is a little different to oxy/act, I'm good at that but has taken a while to get the hang of mig. I have a gasless unit and compared to the sheilded unit I have used it is a lot harder to get a good consistent weld (for me anyway). 'D' size is about knee height, 'E' size is about chest height and is the one you want.

IMO basic mechanical repairs for a stock car are most of the time not super difficult, but paint/panel/bodywork is a very hard thing to master and unless it's done very well is easy to pick up faults. You'll be very good by the end of the build, I'm looking foward to the progress

Offline Joiji

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Re: A very rusty z.
« Reply #58 on: February 04, 2012, 11:54:44 PM »
If you're in the market for a welder, my old man just picked up a new Cigweld mig from WESS, down Grand Junction Road way. (http://www.wess.com.au/).

I echo the comment about mechanical vs body work, but you tend to not do as much damage if you stuff up body work (within reason of course). You can always cut pieces away and refab, or reshape. A lot of the pieces it looks like you need are fairly simple to fabricate with the right tools, or by hand if you're stuck. I'd be happy to help you build a rotisserie if you buy the steel. I've a bandsaw and mig which would be more than up to the task, so you can practice a bit before you go spending a lot of money on kit? So long as I can borrow it myself after you're done with it  :P ;D.

Also, if you want to really get to grips with MIG quickly, give TAFE SA a call. Regency TAFE has a night course for 3 hours a week or so you can attend which will get you a basic qualification in whatever kind of welding you want, including MIG. I did MIG/stick ARC and Oxy (both fusion and braze) over six weeks as part of my teaching degree. Was more helpful than I expected, plus, well maintained machines and space are a nice touch.

Regency TAFE also runs some sheet metal classes, if you want to brush up a bit on that before you start major bodywork. My old lecturer is happy for me to drop past every now and again and just fabricate something up if I need to, so that's always a great advantage, too. Also, they've just installed a 3600mm die folder *drool*.

You've certainly got your work cut out for you with your new project, but it's pretty great fun, so I doubt you'll mind. I'll certainly be watching to see your progress.

Offline Sirpent

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Re: A very rusty z.
« Reply #59 on: February 05, 2012, 08:12:44 AM »
Been looking at this thread for a while and have asked myself how I would tackle this one.

There are a few variables here that really do dictate how best to attack this project and I would take this approach.

#1 Decide which panels will have to be replaced, in this case the floor, rails and at very least the outer sills.
#2 Have the car squared up on a bench then have these sections removed.
#3 While benched have the bar braced with long end to end square channels which would also lend themselves as rotiesse mount points
#4 Have the car chemically dipped, cleaned then sealed in an etch primer
#5 Move on to having the car mounted and concentrate on first giving it back its spine in the floor, rails followed by the sills
#6 As these major concealing items had been off it will allow you to also look at repairing internal rust area's in the sills and then clean and seal them
#7 Complete smaller rust repair patches.

My $0.05

Cheers

John


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Re: A very rusty z.
« Reply #59 on: February 05, 2012, 08:12:44 AM »