Convert a 2+2 to a 2 seater - discuss.

[PeterAllen]

I've had a bit of a web search but I can't find any discussion on this. I guess the USA is probably the only place where someone might try it but they have plenty of 2 seaters anyway and seem more interested in making them RHD.

Is it merely a 'cut - trim - shut' requirement? I think the doors are longer and might also have to be trimmed or 240z doors fitted. Just curious.

[zzzzed]

doors  are longer on a 2 plus 2 roof line is different and the rear quater windows are also different. besides it being un safe, for what it would cost in man hours, it would be cheaper to buy bennys 2 seater and just drive it
 

[Sirpent]

Everything back of the firewall is a different dimension.

On the floor pan just before the upward bend to the firewall there is a seam that runs across from one inner sill to the other, these spot welds are released to allow the 2 seater rear to be welded in place.

The sills need to be sectioned at least 70mm back from the floor seam on the inner side, and another 70mm on the outer side to meet repair industry standards, if there is an inner reo the the reo needs to be sectioned 70mm back fro the inner cut and the outer 70mm from the center cut to create a stagered or step section, butt welding the sill sections together is structurally unsound and is not passable.

This 70mm staggering is the minimal measurements between sections, the longer the staggard cuts the better.

The window pillars have to be done the same way as discribed with the sills.

And if the rails cannot be released for a cut section with the rear cut, then the same stagering procedure needs to be done.

Hope this helps.

[PeterAllen]

Thanks John. If I have read you correctly you are referring to grafting a 2 seater rear onto a 2+2 front. Though some of the steps would be similar I was trying to ascertain how a 2+2 itself might be modified to a 2 seater wheelbase, shell shape, etc. Purely hypothetical.

If someone has a photo of a 2+2 shell in the area behind the front seats I would be interested to have a look. Thanks.

[Sirpent]

Peter as Mick stated it wouldn't be worth the hassle, you could use 2 seater doors, but it would mean taking the better part of 15cm's out of the roof and sectioning it.

The rest of the sectioning on the sills and floor would have to be done to the degree I mentioned previously.

The reason I know about cutting and shutting a Zed is because I did it on my panel shop partners 260z 20 years ago after he wiped off the front and we found a doaner front end.

[gilltech]

If the underlying idea is to make a 2+2 Z look like, or more like, a 2-seater Z, then the main issue is, obviously, the roof line. If the 2+2 roof was to be reshaped to the more flowing 2-seater roof shape then that obviously affects the side windows & panels, the rear hatch etc etc. Pretty major work. Option 1 - perhaps limited to a re-shape the car's roof & pillars, but retain the longer wheelbase of the 2+ 2; or go further yet with option 2 - shorten the wheelbase so to perhaps graft on 2-seater roof & rear panels & use 2-seater doors & side windows. Note that the 2+2 is slightly wider across the back end, adding a complication for 2-seater panel grafting.
Best to simply join the front end of a clean Z to the back end of a 2-seater Z & be done with it, should one have a couple of good shells laying around, as noted in a post above.
But nothing is impossible. There have been lots of modified cars over the years that look as if they could be factory products or factory prototypes. Take the 1960's-era after-market station wagon or shooting brake conversions of various cars like Mustangs & Zephyrs for instance - today they are highly collectible. And there are firms in the USA today who convert early Mustang hardtops into fastbacks or convertibles due to the preponderance of hardtops available (far more were built) & the far fewer sound rust-free fastbacks & convertibles.
Interesting topic & something that many & in particular 2+2 Z owners have no doubt pondered.

[Patch]

I am looking at fitting a 2+2 roof to my 240z,the front pillars on the 2+2 lean forward to the front more allowing the roof more height for the back seats,where the 240 slopes back more, the roof seems to be the same from the front top of windscreen to the hatch top edge on the 240, so I will cutting the roof at the front top corners and using the top front frame and will be welding the roof at the top hatch edge, if you try the chrome strips of both cars they are very close,where the back side windows are I need to come further forward with the cut as that changes there as well, so need a dogs leg on both sides,From this point back the roof frame changes for the differnt shape side back windows. I am Pretty sure mine can be done with out seeing it.

Or I could try and find a 2 seater roof which are not cheap but would be easier.

[chartoo]

I originally bought a cheap 2+2 but i was really in love with the 2 seater. I did i lot of looking into converting it. I found that with a lot of effort  you could swap the left and right rear windows and invert them to make a 2 seater styled 2+2 window but the bit you couldn't over come was the hump of the roof or the extra length of the car. In the end i waited and got a 2 seater. Im sorry for the 2+2 lovers but i really just couldn't get over the rear hump. 2 seaters are more sexy. As a mate said the 2+2 are the males and the 2 seaters are the females of the zed world.

PS That brown zed was a $50 swizz cheese zed that was so dead and parted out . I didn't murder a good zed but i did practice on, salvage and murder a dead zed lol

Also the blue zed is a Photoshop of a 2+2 body with 2 seater roof line but i dont think it could be made in reality with out a lot lot of work

[MaygZ]

What about just take out the back seats and then extend the boot floor forward.  At least it would be 2 seater on the inside.   

[gilltech]

FWIW, that's exactly what Shelby did with the '65 Mustang fastback, which was also a 2+2 - removed the back seat, inserted a larger boot floor panel, & the car became eligible for the two-seater sports car class for racing purposes. Enter the Shelby Mustang GT350. But I digress.
Interesting feedback by Patch, saying that the Z 2-seat pillars are different in angle to the 2+2, I had assumed the roof differences started immediately back from the windscreen top, not at the bottom. So on a sidenote, can 2+2 roof skins be used to infill sunroof holes on 2-seaters?

[Zedback]

I found the 2+2 roof skin to be substantially different from 2 seater, front edge is the same and it just gets steadily more different the further back you go.  Its deeper, wider and completely different profile.  I used the pillars and top frame rail from a 2+2 as donors on my 71 rustbucket - no noticeable difference other than a heap more spot welds on the later 260.  I also used the side rails but with a fair bit of modification.

I reckon the longer 2+2 would make for a very sleek variant of the 2 seater look - more euro GT'ish.  Best bet would be hot rod sites and seriously bone up on roof chops.  The rear inner and outer pillars/quarters need serious modification to lower the height of the hatch hinge panel and hatch frame.  Roof side rails from the rear of the door back would have to curl down to match.  Modifying the roof skin to match... priceless!   

[gav240z]

Interesting I've also considered this having owned a 2+2 the roofline always erked me. I would think a lower roof profile and a reshape on the rear would look the bomb with reshaped 1/4 windows.

The longer and wider wheel base of the 2+2 is meant to make it more stable so you could really have a kick ass hot rod. Retro fit 240z rear lights and most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

I would definitely mock up in Photoshop like chartoo second pic or use other 3d modelling to see if the proportions would work I imagine they would.

I'm pretty sure Mr Matsuo wanted a lower roof profile but in order to accommodate tall Westerners had to raise the roofline.

You could use the Toyota 2000gt for inspiration on rooflines since that car has 1 of the sexiest rooflines ever.

I'm sure I saw a guy who was working on a chop top 240z looked great will see if I can dig it up.

[gav240z]

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/645045/1973-datsun-240z

Here it is looks amazing.

[Patch]

Okay I am going to say yes,and unless I can get a 2 seater roof for a reasonable price this end of the country I am going to try it, here are some pictures of how close it is, will need to just hopefully jack the middle of the top frame up 5mm to give the same bow in head rail as I need the head rail both sides. and at the door frame the roof cut will have a dog leg and the the roof will be welded on the top edge of the hatch frame and the 240 side rail.

[Patch]

On the photo of the chrome strips where the clamps are is the part I am using of the head, that is at the widows edge, and has you can see it just needs a little curve to match, from that point back it changes too much.the 2+2 is the bottom one, as you can see different angle in the windscreen posts.